950 Adventure S and 990 Adventure suspension swap question

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by JXA, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Possible, but why blue. Progressive springs are not a good fit on that fork anyhow.
    #21
  2. Whodatschrome

    Whodatschrome Long timer

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    I didn't see in his posting that he mentioned blue springs. That's why I brought up progressive springs.
    #22
  3. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    He did not say they were blue so you may be correct. I should qualify the progressive spring statement. If you are running the forks without any valving mods then I guess you could realize some improvement in bottoming resistance by installing a quality variable rate spring set. This is what they call riding the spring. In other words less control with damping but more bottoming resistance with spring only. For that bike I would for say a 180lb rider if they were going variable maybe .60kg/.72kg might be a good starting point for the aggressive guy. If the spring does not have specific rates stay away. One size certainly does not fit all and many variable fork spring sets I see are low quality.
    You will get a better ride, better performance all around with straight rate and real valving both mid and base but some do not need it.
    #23
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  4. FakeName

    FakeName Wile E Coyote SuperGenius

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    Just FYI:

    Torque is being humble here in his anonymity.

    He's the finest suspension builder I've met and has done a lot of work on all my bikes as well as my entire riding posse.
    Good dude. I don't ask questions, I just take him my stuff and he makes it work.
    #24
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  5. Maoule

    Maoule Long timer Supporter

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    ^^^Hear, hear.
    #25
  6. Vytautas

    Vytautas n00b

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    So, i did change tthe springs and the old ones where 60mm shorter. Now i have progressive springs in front and rear shocks. Deal is solved! The ride now is great! I was going 100km/h on the forest road and did't felt any hits on the bars. Thanks for the help guys!

    Attached Files:

    #26
  7. Vytautas

    Vytautas n00b

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    P.S. Taking out the front fork i broke the bolt and had to change the bearings too :)
    #27
  8. Whodatschrome

    Whodatschrome Long timer

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    Could the new springs that are 60mm longer than the existing ones cause some coil bind?
    #28
  9. Vytautas

    Vytautas n00b

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    Well a guy who reasembled the forks told me this lenght. But from the old springs one end was cut off.
    #29
  10. Igoron

    Igoron n00b

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    Guys, hello to you from Russia. Please tell me. Now I have 990, 09 years old. fork stroke 210mm. I want to make 265. What spare parts do I need to buy? Studying, I understood like this.
    1) 48600 240 Inner tube D = 48 L = 595 2003
    2) 48600241S HYDR.STOP L = 200mm D = 31.9 CPL
    3) 48600225 Adjustment tube 6x482
    4) 48600253 PISTONROD 14x11x1 L = 516
    Did I write everything right? or something to add? Or maybe I wrote too much?
    #30
  11. Igoron

    Igoron n00b

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    does no one have an answer?
    #31
  12. 1coolbanana

    1coolbanana Long timer

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    All I had to do to make my 2009 Adv with 210 travel into 265 travel was use the the damper rod and rebound adjuster rod from a 2003 S.
    Only 2 parts required for my conversion.
    All other parts were identical.

    EDIT: And spring spacers
    #32
  13. Bengu72

    Bengu72 El Gordo

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    Hey there! I have a 2006 990 ABS (the standard model) and I started thinking about doing the conversion a while ago; thanks to a certain cool banana, I was able to get the fork done over the last few days, and I figured I'd leave a step by step explanation about the job, so people like me, who haven't even opened a fork before, can have the peace of mind that I got by reading 1coolbanana's post and thinking about it for a while, so here it goes:

    First of all, there are two ways you can get more travel from the forks; you can either use a longer damping rod -which is good for an extra 20mm if you get the 516mm damping rod (48600253) or 30mm if you get the 526mm one (48600315)-, or you can get a longer cartridge and a shorter hydraulic stopper, which will give you 35mm more, as you can see on the following pictures:

    Ah.jpg Picture 1: The 48600253 damping rod from the 2003 950S (left) is 20mm longer than the 48600425 rod from the 2006 990; this means that the fork is able to extend 20mm more with the 48600253 damping rod, because the travel starts 20mm "further up". As I said, there seems to be another version of the damping rod, the 48600315, which is even longer, but I had already bought everything by the time I came to know about it.

    Af.jpg Ad.jpg Ac.jpg Pictures 2, 3, and 4: The 48600226 cartridge from the 2003 950S (left in pic 2, bottom in pics 3 and 4) is 35mm longer than the 48600140 cartridge from the 2006 990...

    Ag.jpg Picture 5: ...on the other hand, the 48600241S hydraulic stopper from the 2003 950S (left) is 35mm SHORTER than the 48600342S hydraulic stopper from the 2006 990...

    Aj.jpg Picture 6: ...which means that the position of the upper part of the hydraulic stopper when bottoming remains the same*, but, as the cartridge is 35mm longer, the fork can extend 35mm further up.

    Ak.jpg Al.jpg Pictures 7 and 8: To sum up, here is a before and after comparison; on the left part of the pictures, you can see the new parts, and, on the right, the old parts; as you can see, I essentially got 55mm more travel by throwing all of the above at a time (I know the damping rods don't come up that far when the midvalve is assembled, but I think it paints a clearer picture).

    Hopefully, I've made the main point easy to understand. Now, the constructive details (these are important, stick around if you are seriously considering this):

    Ok, so, in order to do this, we will need to get the following;

    -The longer version of the cartridge (48600226)
    -The longer version of the damping rod (48600253)
    -The SHORTER version of the hydraulic stopper (48600241S)
    -The longer version of the rebound adjuster rod (48600225). I know, I know, I didn't mention it earlier, but I didn't want to make the explanation more complicated. Anyway, the thing about this component is that, at least in Europe, they don't make it anymore, but we're in luck; it's just a 6x1 tube that connects the knob on your for cap to the needle that adjusts the low speed rebound circuit; just get an aluminium or inox 6x1 tube and cut it to length**.
    -New oil, oil seals and dust guards (sort of obvious)

    Also, you may as well get new springs while you're at it, since these bikes are SERIOUSLY undersprung. I recommend you check out RaceTech's recommended rate for your size and "style" at https://racetech.com/ChooseVehicle.aspx. I got my springs from https://www.teknikmotorsport.com/; they're 485mm long and have a 0.7kg/mm rate for my fat arse (I'm 1.89m tall and weigh in at about 87kg, or a bit over 6'2'' an 192lb).

    Lastly, you might have to change both slider rings, depending on how worn they are in your bike (check the teflon coating at the outside of the inner ring and the inside of the outer ring; my bike has 25000km or 15000km and I was able to reuse them. I'd say, if in doubt, don't get them untill you open the forks and check them); references are 48600428 (inside ring) and 48600429 (outside ring). Also, don't get confused; I can't be 100% sure on this, but, in my experience, the only components I had to change that are not for my model were the cartridges, hydraulic stoppers, damping rods, and rebound adjuster rods; there are some more differences between my 2006 990 and the 2003 950S, but there is no need to change anything more than those 4 things.

    As for the "build" itself, you will have to take the top part of the cartridge off the old one and put it on the new one, as you can see in picture 9, below. Other than that, it's just like an ordinary maintenance job, but replacing the cartridges, hydraulic stoppers, damping rods, and rebound adjuster rods for the new ones.

    Ae.jpg Picture 9: You need to change the top part of the cartridge from the old one to the new one (if you don't reuse it, you'll have to spend over 80$ more).


    And that's about it for the forks. I'm not going to do the shock myself because I don't want to mess it up, but I will have it done as soon as I can. I'm still looking into it and I need to discuss it further with some proper mechanics, but I'm pretty sure I've got it, so I'll post something about it as soon as I can put my finger on it and do it.

    I can't be sure if this will work on different models, but I'm pretty confident it would.
    If you want to look it up in more detail, you can check what components your bike uses in https://sparepartsfinder.ktm.com/ or https://partsss.com/es.


    *: And, therefore, so does the upper part of the damping rod
    **: It's supposed to be 482mm long, but, if i were you, I'd just make sure that it is longer than the old one by the same length than the new damping rod is longer than the old one, which, again, is supposed to be 20mm. Just make sure not to accidentally cut it too short like I did.
    #33
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  14. Bengu72

    Bengu72 El Gordo

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    º
    You got everything right except for the 48600240 Inner tube; you don't need to change the inner tube, but the cartridge (48600226). As far as I know, changing the inner tube won't make any difference (I haven´t changed it and the forks work great), but you do need to change the cartridge; otherwise, the mid-valve will probably crash into the basevalve before you run out of front wheel travel, and, even if it doesn't, you won't gain any more travel from your new hydraulic stopper, and it won't even do it's job (in short, you would get only 230mm travel, and the fork wouldn't work properly).
    If you get the new cartridge, it will work fine and you'll get the 265mm travel.

    However, if I were you I would look into the even longer damping rod (48600315) for an extra 10mm (so 275mm travel in total). I don't know for sure if it fits, though. I checked that my assembly worked, but I can't guarantee that it would take the 526mm damping rod. I think it would, but you might have to cruch the numbers yourself.
    #34
  15. ElwoodBlues

    ElwoodBlues Been here awhile

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    Ok, I’m sorry if this is a sort of same post as Igoron asked, but as of your build you are a riser expert :D so could you check if these are the correct parts to raise my ‘06 990 to 265mm (forks anyway)?

    And so the top part, the tube 28x420 is not needed?

    8286EECE-8FCD-48E3-A231-1E31D870DF85.jpeg
    #35
  16. GenesiZ

    GenesiZ Adventurer

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    I'm going to follow you in this experience. I'm looking to lift my '08 990 to 245 or a bit higher upcoming winter.
    #36
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  17. Bengu72

    Bengu72 El Gordo

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    Hey, ElwoodBlues, GenesiZ;

    The list ElwoodBlues prepared made me realize I screwed up; the shorter version of the hydraulic stop (which is the one you will need for the extension) is the 48600241S, not the 48600342S, as I said (the 48600342S is the long one, the one you already have in your forks). Sorry, I'll clarify

    The first item you have on your list, the cartridge, is correct, and no, you don't need the top part; you can take it from your original cartridges and put them on your new ones when you take the forks appart.

    The second item, the piston rod, might be right, but be carefull. The one you have selected is the 526mm version, which would give you 275mm, rather than the 265mm I got with the 516mm version. Since you are going to make the extension, I do encourage you to go for the full 275mm, but I can't guarantee 100% that it will work. I think it would, but there is a small posibility that those extra 10mm might cause the mid-valve to collide with the base-valve, which, again, I'm pretty sure it won't be the case, but if it is, it will be a disaster. If you don´t want to take the risk, you can get the 265mm travel with the 516mm version.

    The third item on your list, the hydraulic stopper, is wrong (my fault). In order to get the extension, you need the 200mm version, rather than the 235mm version (which is the one you have in your forks right now). The reason we want a shorter hydraulic stopper is to compensate for the extra length of the cartridge. If you don't use the shorter stopper, you will still get the same total travel, but the motorcycle will be much taller than the S version and you won't get any use of the last part of your fork. To clarify, you need the 48600241S, not the 48600342S. You'll be happy to hear that the shorter version is less than half the price, too.

    The last item on your list, the adjuster rod, is probably wrong for a couple of possible reasons; firstly, I don't think you'll be able to get it because that component has been discontinued, it is not manufactured any more, and if you order it there is a chance that the seller will get in touch with you in a couple of days and tell you they can't find it anymore. Second; even if it was still on stock, the 482mm adjuster rod works for the 516mm, but I suspect that, if you get the 526mm piston rod, you would also need to get a slightly longer adjuster rod. I can't find it, though, so this is just a conjecture, but I suspect that would be the case (I can't see how it would work, otherwise). In any case, you will probably need to make the adjuster rod yourself, but it's super-easy; you would just need to get about 1m of 6x1mm tube and cut two pieces to the desired length (482mm for the 516mm piston rod, or probably 492mm for the 526mm pistond rod, but again, I can't tell for sure).


    I realize this might be confusing, so hit me up if you want and we'll sort it out.

    As for GenesiZ; if you only want 245mm, the procedure is exactly the same, except you don't need the longer piston rod and adjuster rod. Just get the cartridges (48600226) and hydraulic stoppers (48600241S), and that will be enough to get you those extra 35mm.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go fix my first post:fpalm
    #37
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  18. Salzig

    Salzig Long timer

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    Great job @Bengu72
    Just for info the 200mm hydraulic stop 48600241S has been superseded by 48600380S1.

    If you need info for lengthening the shock feel free to ask.
    #38
  19. Bengu72

    Bengu72 El Gordo

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    Thanks, Salzig! But are you sure about the hydraulic stopper? The 48600380S1 seems to be for the EXC line, and I bought my 48600241S stoppers just 3 weeks ago.

    As for the shock; boy, do I need info!! The thing is, for what I've seen in another thread, somebody did the shock extension by changing the compression backing shim on the primary piston. I have seen a picture of his bike (which seemed fine), and I had already though about it because the thickness reduction does match the extension of the travel (according to my rough interpretation of the suspension geometry, which is sort of... rustic), BUT I still can't figure out how it would work.
    The thing is, the wheel is supposed to be able to extend about 55mm further, right? But if we just used a thinner shim, what would stop it from resting at the same base level than the thicker original one? Wouldn't the whole valve assembly just drop further down the piston rod? If it did, the wheel wouldn't be able to extend further than with the original assembly, right? If anything, it may be able to compress further, but that is not the point, is it?
    I was going to try, anyway, as the thinner shim is only about 10€ and it seems to have worked for other people, but I'm not completely comfortable with it, and I would really, really apreciate if you could explain what I'm missing here.

    Thanks
    upload_2020-5-13_21-38-15.png upload_2020-5-13_21-38-15.png

    Attached Files:

    #39
  20. Salzig

    Salzig Long timer

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    Re the hydraulic stopper, well that's wierd.
    I did the work quite some time ago and was told, both by my dealer and by another dealer in Switzerland, that 48600241S was not available anymore.
    The replacement was 48600380S1 and that's what's in my fork.
    Also the spareparts finder of Farioli (biggest KTM dealer in Italy and former KTM importer) confirm this.

    For the shock
    The #62 is actually a stroke limiter. The thinner the shim, the longer the stroke.
    Then you have to compensate the longer lenght either with a longer spring or a preload shim over the spring.
    #40
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