A couple of rigs we just finished up.

Discussion in 'Hack Vendors' started by jaydmc, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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    We just finished these up today, the red bike is my demo bike (for sale)
    These bikes are all water cooled BMW GSA's, the two customers bikes showed up still in the BMW shipping crates so some assembly of the bikes was required. All three have had the front end widened, the trail reduced and a custom hub and front fender made such that a BMW GS rear wheel is ran on the front. This allows all three wheels to interchange such that the spare GS rear wheel carried where the inner pannier could go (still can be changed out for the pannier) will fit all three positions. These rigs are running automotive rear wheels and tires as well as a matching automotive wheel and tire on the sidecar. As the sidecar has both the automotive pattern as well as the BMW pattern the BMW spare wheel still works and as the rear wheel is bolted on using an adapter by removing the adapter you can still run the GS rear wheel spare carried. All three bikes were custom painted and run front and rear WARN winches with synthetic cable. They all have heated seats, power outlets, USB ports, Bumpers, racks, electric trim, and much more.
    Jay G
    DMC sidecars
    www.dmcsidecars.com
    866-638-1793
    DSCN3338.JPG
    #1
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  2. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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    A few more photo's DSCN3343.JPG
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  3. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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  4. 5x4

    5x4 Been here awhile

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    look real good jay, how come the matching paint jobs? his&her's? should leave with a smile on their face's.
    #4
  5. professir

    professir Buttugly ol biker

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    While I fully realize these are out of my budget....beautiful!
    #5
  6. xrocket

    xrocket Beemer Geezer

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    Howdy Cousins ... Welcome to the playground! C'ya on the road.

    Elle

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  7. FLYING EYEBALL

    FLYING EYEBALL out of step

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    I thought the red one was DRONES?
    #7
  8. Dirtwannabe

    Dirtwannabe Been here awhile

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    OUTSTANDING!! Winches....COOL. The only thing missing is a driven hack wheel. Oooooh....dreaming!
    #8
  9. Pastaman

    Pastaman Been here awhile

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    WOW, drooling & dreaming!
    #9
  10. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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    We can do the driven hack wheel, no problem however it does add $8000 to the cost, more complexity and more weight which can be a draw back as much as an advantage.
    Jay G
    DMC sidecars
    www.dmcsidecars.com
    866-638-1793
    #10
  11. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Ok I'll play ! Jay for the kind of money your asking for the demo, I want leading links or center hub steering, swaybar and automotive tires and wheels and, if Mobec can do Duo-Drive and leading links for 26k Euros what can you do ? thanks
    #11
  12. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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    In general you are just throwing out words with out a real understanding of the engineering pros and cons and chances are you have not ridden with most of the modifications you are asking about.

    There is little to no advantage to leading links over the modified telelever front end and you give up the ECS. We considered doing a leading link only in order to be able to gain the interchangeable wheels but once we figured out that in order to do the brakes proper keeping both disks and calipers along with full ABS we were going to have to make a custom hub any ways and we could make the custom hub work with the stock Telelever front end we figured all we would be adding is expense to the front end and giving up the ESC and making a rig that was to most people not cosmetically pleasing. Other companies will build leading links where they give up one brake rotor, and often add extra bracing that looks good but does little this is much easier and requires much less engineering. Hub center for a dual sport bike, why? I can see it on a street only bike that you want to run a wide automotive tire as it keeps the tire flat to the ground but on a rig set up for RTW travel this would be a poor choice if the travel is to include unpaved roads. Hub center when replacing standard forks makes for a better feel to the brakes due to a more direct line of force to the center mass of the bike however the Telelever is so rigid the gains would be minimal and more then likely only noticed if you were looking to reduce lap times on a track by a few thousands of a second, not some thing a dual sport rig set up for world touring has any use for. Keep in mind any custom one off parts such as leading links or hub center can really suck if they fail way off the beaten track for repairs so sticking with proven BMW parts can be a real plus. These rigs have automotive tires on the rear, and on all but mine also on the sidecar, we tried it on the front but to make them work right a narrow hard to find tire is what works best and works only slightly better in some situations then the rear tire we are running and worse in many situations. The tires we went with are very common size, more so once you get out of the USA. Sway bars done right, work well on the street but off road end up being disconnected, they also normally limit what you can do with electric trim. We are working on a design that allows for keeping the electric trims full function with out changing spring rates when adjusted. Jury is still out if it is worth the effort on a dual sport rig heading to the third world. More miles need to be ridden on the test bike before we consider making it a production item. I have also not found a quick disconnect set up that I am happy with for disconnecting the sway bar when the going gets slow and rough. As to Mobecs' dual drive I think you will find that the 26K Euro is for the drive only, the sidecar is extra and you will find that it is speed limited, adds complexity that I would not want to have to service or repair in the third world, it is an item the looks good on paper only for the most part. Do you really want this complexity on a RTW bike? We can add sidecar wheel drive where the rear wheel of the bike has 100% torque available at all times and the sidecar can have up to 50% of the torque. This set up is full time sidecar wheel drive with full differential action and is most useful on the street to take out the yaw effect sidecars have. This set up could also be unhooked leaving standard bike wheel drive should a drive shaft or "U" joint fail.

    As to the cost of our demo rigs, keep in mind that much of it is cosmetics and labor which is not included in your mythical 26K Euro. Cosmetics include painting the bike, Painting the panniers, upholstering the seat of the bike and sidecar to match. Powder coating the silver plated crash bars and racks on the bike flat black to match the sidecar. Buying 3 BMW wheels at $1300 each and the custom front end being set up for changing the wheel out and the spare tire rack required buying 23 BMW lug bolts at about $5 each so that only one size wrench is needed some thing that makes a big difference when doing a wheel change in the mud or snow. These sidecars are also running a fender we made specifically in order to be able to run a BMW tail light, the sidecar also has BMW turn signals. Running high end LED driving lights. The two winches in order to make the wiring neat with a single control point takes about 5 hours just to wire. Attention to details takes time, time is money. Remember this rig was built to not only work well but also be featured in two magazine articles.

    Dave, not every one wants a rig with every catch phrase they can think of, Most of our customers are looking for well thought out rigs for very specific needs and with a look and attention to detail such that it looks like they could have purchased it at their BMW dealer. We can build you a rig like you ask about and skip the cosmetics, we will however not skip the attention to details. But first we would need to go over the engineering details in order to build you a rig that will perform the way you want rather then just loaded down with expensive catch phrase stuff.

    Jay G
    DMC sidecars
    www.dmcsidecars.com
    866-638-1793
    #12
  13. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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    The bikes are his and hers, it does not show in the photo but they do not match, hers is metallic purple and his is dark cherry red both metallic. No, the red bike is mine, we have done many red bikes, Drones is not a water cooled bike.
    #13
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  14. Hookalatch

    Hookalatch Born Under Bad Sign

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    Beautiful rigs! Just a tiny decimal point out of my price range though. Do appreciate your explanation of why you choose what you did. Still trying to learn all I can about these machines.
    #14
  15. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Oh contrary Jay, I'm not just throwing out sidecar buzz words, I have owned and ridden a rig assembled by Kurt Liebhaber with EZS leading link forks and it steered much more precisely than any of the trail reducer options for telescoping forks anyone has assembled, I've driven DRONEs current rig and it steered nicely maybe a little too lightly. My own 1150 gs based rig with a Dedome style front end mod steers much more precisely, but DRONE was way under sprung at that time.
    I also own a Bill Ballou CHS rig with a big old EZS Summit on it it makes a lovely touring rig. An 80 y/o at the rally in Sturgis and his buddy obviously in his 70's seemed to have no problem riding all over the country with CHS Kawasaki Hannigan rigs.
    Were not going to agree , those are nice sidecar rigs but your not breaking any new ground, GS based CHS rigs are all over Europe, the market may appreciate some more discriminating hardware give it a whirl. DB
    #15
  16. 5x4

    5x4 Been here awhile

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    shame on ya, who'da thunk, your in your business to make money(don't know where the smiley's are) that's just terrible, next thing ya know, you and the other S/C guru's are gonna want to charge for all the FREE info you guy's provide to anyone who ask's , I got more, but I don't know how to spell propriotery information good luck Jay, beautiful machines!!!!remember, the cheapest thing on a m/c is the rider.
    #16
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  17. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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    Price is one of the reasons we make lower priced sidecars such as our M72B and Kenna single and why we are importing another container load of Sputnik sidecars. Not sure if I could afford my own bike if it was not a business tool.
    Jay G
    DMC sidecars
    www.dmcsidecars.com
    866-638-1793
    #17
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  18. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

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    I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about DMC's rigs, owning two of them, and having even seen in person and discussed with Jay the prototype for these rigs. But Jay's post has taught me even more. Tons of good info here if you pause to read and absorb all that Jay is saying.

    I certainly think that keeping the ESC operational front and rear is a huge selling point. Out in the boonies on bad roads, I don't need a center hub system or leading links (Remember Wolfie!). Keeping the brakes and forks serviceable using BMW parts anywhere in the world makes great sense. I'll admit that I've become a DeDome convert, but before saying these Waterboxers need the DeDome telelever I think I have to drive one.

    Having a spare tire that will fit all three corners is huge for a RTW rig, or even for a rig that gets lost in the American or Canadian backcountry. Just last week I sliced up my car pusher in a remote area with temps running about 105F, and it took me 4 hours to limp to the nearest town. If I had a mounted spare, I could have done the swap and gotten going in 30 minutes.

    Goes without saying, that just about anybody on this forum (myself included) would be thrilled to own this rig if cash was not an issue.
    #18
  19. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    Actually there are many more GS based outfits around with Leading links than with center hub steering. There is nothing wrong with a trail reducer type system either they are time proven to do well also.
    #19
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  20. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Ok you guys have all made points, my comments are based on the idea that the DMC machines are allot of money when other technology provides stronger more precise steering having owned and driven a GS with Dedome style trail reduction, a K1100 with leading links and now a centerhub , the later 2 steer much more precisely and the automotive tires allow harder cornering better braking.
    I like the big expedition tub but I hang out with a welder in the winter he'd have more material to make jokes with if I owned a plastic tub.But this design and this sort of money makes it unattractive at current pricing.DB
    #20