A Step in the Right Direction...

Discussion in 'Central – From Da Nort Woods to the Plane States' started by The Fist, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    Troopers target unsafe bikers
    --------------------

    Chicago helmet law also suggested

    By Rachel Osterman and Gary Washburn
    Tribune staff reporters

    September 30, 2004

    Reacting to a recent increase in fatal motorcycle crashes, Illinois State Police said Wednesday they are starting to keep closer tabs on speedy riders, and a Chicago alderman has proposed requiring city motorcyclists to wear helmets.

    "We're going to start specifically going out looking for this unsafe motorcycle driving," said Sgt. Brian Windle, supervisor of the state police's aggressive-driving unit.

    Windle spoke at a news conference Wednesday, two days after a fatal crash on Interstate Highway 90 left a 20-year-old Harwood Heights woman dead and a Des Plaines man in critical condition. Police said the man was wearing a helmet, but the woman, his passenger, was not.

    Illinois requires safety courses only for motorcycle drivers younger than 18 and is one of three states that don't require riders to wear helmets. At the news conference police said protective gear and safety classes could help prevent fatalities, but such steps are recommendations and can't be enforced.

    In Chicago, Ald. Edward Burke (14th) introduced an ordinance that would require helmets for motorcyclists and their passengers, a proposal that won immediate support from Mayor Richard Daley.

    Under Burke's measure, violators would face a $100 fine for a first offense and $200 for subsequent violations.

    "Maybe if Chicago does it, it will show legislators in Springfield that the time has come for the legislature to mandate a helmet law in Illinois," Burke said.

    City Law Department spokeswoman Jennifer Hoyle said the department had not yet reviewed Burke's proposal to see whether it conflicted with state codes, which do not require helmets.

    Motorcycle deaths have been climbing steadily during the last six years, increasing 10.7 percent between 2002 and 2003, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. In Illinois, 130 bikers have been killed as of Monday, up from 119 during the same period last year, a spokesman for the Illinois Department of Transportation said.

    Windle said the growing number of riders who zip through highway lanes in packs are challenging to catch. When bikers flee police, troopers can chase them only if the chase doesn't threaten public safety, he said.

    Now police plan to target the parts of the Dan Ryan, Kennedy and Eisenhower Expressways where Windle said riders frequently race.

    When troopers decide not to chase the motorcyclists, Windle said, they can tell local police departments to intercept them when they get off the expressways. If troopers record license plate numbers, they also can have other authorities track the bikers down.

    At Northwestern Memorial Hospital, the driver in Monday's crash was recuperating from 13 hours of surgery and preparing for a five-hour procedure to help repair his arm and shoulder, said Ilaz Kadriu, his man's father.

    Mentor Kadriu, 26, has been riding since his late teens. His father said Kadriu took up the activity because "his friends are bikers."

    Kadriu said his son was a leader of a riding group and drove safely.

    Police said the son had a blood-alcohol level of 0.10, which is above the legal limit, and was driving at a high rate of speed at the time of the crash. He could be charged with reckless homicide, said State Trooper Angelo Mollo.


    Copyright (c) 2004, Chicago Tribune
    #1
  2. staples

    staples Been here awhile

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    Who'da thunk doing 47 in a 30 is unsafe. :(: Now I gotta take traffic school...
    #2
  3. kfsinc

    kfsinc Chaingolian Observer Supporter

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    The bad part of the story here is that this guy (and others like him) are giving safe riders a bad name. I live in the Chicago area and heard the news and my wife's comments: "Biker killed on Kennedy", followed by a comment from wife about motorcycles being unsafe. What the story didn't say -- ever -- was that he was drunk -- later in the day news radio did manage to say that he was speeding.

    In this case, the motorcycle wasn't at fault, the squid riding it was. I'm very sad for the family that lost a daughter and the family that now will pay the consequences of his actions. However this is not a case of motorcycles being unsafe, it is a case of an unsafe rider and the media's unbalanced/sensationalized reporting of a tragic, but very avoidable, accident.

    Ride SAFE!!
    #3
  4. motojoe

    motojoe Arrest Cheney and Bush

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    everyone at school knows i was in an accident that did some serious damage, so they all tell me every time a biker dies. its really frustrating. Id be just sitting there in my wheelchair and they would drop a newspaper in my lap open to the article about the accident.
    what the fuck can you say when your in a wheelchair to convince em bikes aren't the boogie man?
    #4
  5. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    The last fucking thing I need is more laws to protect me from myself
    This is just an opportunity to levy another Tax.
    I wear a helmet and gear to cross the street on my bike. But its my choice to do so.
    I have no desire to be cared for by law makers.
    Now, About seatbelt Laws, I feel the same way tax tax tax
    how can it even be legal to operate a motorcycle when you have to be strapped while in a cage? :dunno just another tax :nod I do wear my belt when I choose to ... about 80% of the time

    The asshole doin 102 mph wheelies Should have his m class revoked
    the passengers who are hurt or worse, die from some idiots ignorance, thats sad :cry............but, life is all about choices

    and I would rather make my own.

    As for cycles being dangerous wtf just dont see it
    the operator sure. but not the bike.

    let see this guy goes out for beers. drinks too many, then takes his girlfriend with no gear for a high speed ride and kills her.now the ISP is going to react with laws that will eventually affect anyone who rides a sport bike and enter the City.

    lemme guess this Burke guy is a Democrat and probably on the finance board.
    its all about the money tax tax tax.
    I wish that Chicago would seperate its politics from the rest of the people in the state of Illinois who would rather enjoy their freedom than continue to be overgoverned, taxed and cared for.

    Put on your helmets and turn in your guns pave some more roads and put up a gaurdrail before somebody gets hurt
    #5
  6. STBO

    STBO Confused Adventurer

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    Tolls Chain, your forgot about more tolls!!! :evil By the way I agree with everything you said.
    #6
  7. Skinner

    Skinner Mr.KTM

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    Your preachin to the choir brother!:pope :kurt

    :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap
    #7
  8. elektron

    elektron effin ef

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    most of the recent motorcycle deaths seems well deserved.. just too bad most of these ppl already spread their genes.. evolution would be better off without them :p

    but seriously... recently all the news about ppl dying and excessivly speeding on bikes has gotten to me at werk too. People asking my opinion on helmet laws and shit.

    arn't there more pressing matters of concern elsewhere in the world ? i heard a bunch of iraqi kids got killed by suicide bombers because the troops were handing out candy to them.

    stupid ppl kill selves because of bad choices, or innocent children die for being near outside forces.. which is worse..

    We Report, You Decide !

    ( terror level Raised due to bushes poor performance on the debate )

    *elektron looks around*

    this is jo mama right ?
    #8
  9. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    Hmmmm.....

    While I am generally against big government getting involved in personal choice matters, I must say that I, in many ways, agree with HELMET laws...

    Chain- you are a wise man, capable of making decisions in favor of your best interest and safety...

    Conversely, there are legions of young men and women out there who unconsciously choose to make themselves quite vulnerable to personal harm. Therefore I suggest a middle-ground....

    Similar to requiring a motorcycle class to those under the age of 18; I suggest a similar age-requirement... Howabout we prohibit those under the age of 21 from riding motorcycles without a helmet. OR, at the very least, force PASSENGERS to use a helmet if the motorcycle operator is under 21. OR, howabout requiring helmets for the first 3 years of motorcycle operation (starting at license conception).

    I agree Chain, that in many ways, laws are an excuse to collect revenue and bolster big government; but, helmet laws promote thought in the right direction.
    #9
  10. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    When I teach a newb how to ride I first teach them to slow ride. which requires balance and control of all your mechanisms
    Something alot of of riders I know with many miles under their belt just cant seem to do, and wont spend the time to learn. Like I have said before Im no Jimmy Lewis but I get by. It teaches balance and skill
    To suggest an age limit for helmets I think makes no sense. there is no golden age when a person all o the sudden inherits common sense, To suggest a certain number of riding years may make a little more sense to me , though not alot. for instance, motojoe may run 40k one year and the fist might do 15k whos more ready to ride without gear?
    Im tired of dealing with a society that wants laws to protect the masses.
    if thats your bag China is calling.
    what is wrong with people being ACCOUNTABLE for their actions? whether the result be positive or negative.
    If I go hunting tomorrow and fall from a deer stand and land on an arrow and perish, should there now be a law against hunting from a tree? or should the law read that one must be safely strapped to the tree? or should it say that I should only be able to go 6' up the tree?
    Or maybe we dont need the law at all.
    By climbing the tre with a bow and quiver full of arrows, I have taken a RISK, for which I hope there will be a REWARD.
    If I should perish while doing so, then my friends I bid you farewell. today is as good a day as any to die.
    and I say this not with sarcasm but with a philosiphy I try to live by. It seems that our society has and continues to forget the price of freedom.
    Too many want freedom with conditions.
    Our country has liberated more individuals from totalatarian (sp?) rule than any other nation in recorded history and that comes with a price. risk / reward. Its not about partisianship, its about freedom.
    A very small % of natural U.S. citizens enjoy their freedom to the full, instead we spend our time bitching about the items that arent just quite right.
    and all too often the loudest voices are not the common roll up your sleeves, fix your own plumbing, can your beans, raise a garden, put your own meat in the freezer, fix your own fuckin motorcycle people of this Great Naion, they loudest voices seem to be special interest who havent got a clue about the big picture or a real life.
    As far as Im concerned Mayor Dailey and Alderman Burke can stuff their helmet taxes up their asses
    Helmet laws promote THOUGHT?
    How?
    The City thinking for a bunch of stupid fucks?
    If thats the case thatll work out just fine. you keep em alive upthere and we'll let them die down here. I dont mean to sound so insensitive but if someone is an idiot how far will you go to protect them from themselves?
    It is not the jay oh bee of our government be it local, state, or national to offer supplement for ignorance. Survival of the fittest, seems cruel? I dont think so. Let all the unfit go stay with burke
    #10
  11. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    You know... this post has prompted me to do some serious thinking...

    Chain, BTW, I must say that your words have done an excellent job in refining my attitudes and conceptions of the topic at hand. I admire your succint and plain-spoken words and philosophies. You are a no-nonsense, straight-up kind of guy and I admire & respect you for it. --

    I think that my desire for a helmet laws are for the wrong reasons; I will attempt to explain below--

    It is my dislike of those who risk personal injury to themselves and passengers that I arrive at the desire for helmet laws. With anger, I watch the idiots on sport bikes fly by, equipped with nothing more than shorts and sandals. With contemptous amazement, I stare at the individuals (often with passenger) ride their "american-made" bikes from one interstate highway to the next, confident that the sunglasses they wear will save them from the rash of the highway.

    For some reason I get upset. I get angry and for some reason, I almost wish tragic fate upon them; just to show them how stupid they really are. These emotions are wrong. I shouldn't have them; but I do. I got so upset with these people that I must have thought that helmet laws would be the ultimate "fuck-you." It would serve as a kick in the ass to their blase attitude about living. It would be worth losing the right to choose whether or not to wear a helmet, just to see them pissed off.

    You see Chain, I endorsed these helmet laws as a means of revenge. I can see that now and know the error of my thinking. Accordingly, I must "flip-flop" my argument.

    I have learned that I must take an "all or nothing" stance on issues of freedom. I agree Chain, that people must be ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. I agree that society must not try and protect the masses, but let them live as the masses wish to live. I cannot, at one moment say that prohibition of certain substances is wrong; and at the other say that helmet laws are needed. :stoned

    While it may previously have seemed impossible; internet debate has resulted in a convincing and though-provoking scenario.

    For this moment of clarity, I thank you Chain.

    but, don't get cocky-- I will NEVER vote for GWB.

    :lol3
    #11
  12. mutineer

    mutineer pierpont lives

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    an ability to recognize a personal bias that lies at the core what one has previoulsy considered to a well reasoned position takes intelligence and character.

    You are going to be a damn fine lawyer.


    Chain,
    maybe you should have been one, although I am not mean enough to wish such a fate on an innocent man.

    and no, I'll never vote for GWB either.
    #12
  13. Taki

    Taki Waiting for Godot

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    You are a man of admirable character.
    This was also a lesson about the value of your inner circle of friends.
    #13
  14. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    I agree to publicy admit a change in opinion takes great character :nod

    heres to you Fist :beer

    As for who your vote thats a choice as well. Unfortunately, once again our choices are inadequate. To have such a small pool to pick from really makes no sense at all. I tend to vote for what I hope a party stands for, not the the individual. when in reality Im not sure either of the mega parties stands for much more than self promotion. :cry Kind of sad when you think about it.
    Any person truly fit to run this great nation would run at the chance. Run in the opposite direction that is.
    Until we get rid of career politicians beginning at the mayoral level and especially at the senior levels of state and federal government, and set term limits for all. We will continue to be governed by "The Good Ol Boys Club"

    As youve seen with Ross Petrol and Nader, all a third party can hope for is to swing the vote, and that my friend is sad. I believe the US is in a political rut that is going to take one hell of a get off to correct.

    So Vote for who ever makes you feel better, but rest assured non of your choices are fit to truly serve.
    Its Hard Work :D

    Who's Butch Cheney?
    #14
  15. Skinner

    Skinner Mr.KTM

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    My praise and thanks to all for this thought provoking conversation. It is a pleasure to include some intellectual thoughts into my day. I agree with the philosophys and words written by Chain, Mutineer and Fist.

    The age old fights from a few against hunting, from those wearing leather shoes, with a cheese burger in their mouth, gets a little old. Chain phrased it up so Perfectly.

    And Fist, I do think it would be pretty funny to see all the middle aged dentists on their Harleys wearing helmets to match their brand new black leathers.
    #15
  16. TIM I.

    TIM I. and some dry white toast

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    I'm not for legislation like this, but putting taxes and gov't control aside, I'd GUESS that the costs of putting up a kid with no insurance on life support starts to balance the scales. Add multiplier as needed. I think if you looked at the health system side of this, you'd be grasping for solutions. and grasping may be at the wrong solution.

    so how are you and I going to get out of paying for these scenarios? everyone's hand is in the till, my point is , why should I pay increased health/life benefits because of this?

    Again, I'm not for more laws.

    On a side note, you'll get layed much faster when you wear your helmet and carry a SPARE. :D
    #16
  17. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    Here, Here !!

    :freaky

    I agree Chain, limited choices are a bad thing-- A two party system, the primary system, the electoral college, career politicians; all result in mitigated choices...

    However, I feel that aligning myself with a political party and therefore assimilating myself with ALL of their beliefs, results in lost choices. It seems to me, that aside from their ideological stance on reducing government, the Republican Party (and in particular, the neo-conservatives like Cheney and Bush) do an excellent job of reducing one's ability to choose (ie-abortion, gay marriage, their relationship with big drug/insurance companies)...

    I vote for who i think has beliefs similar to my own; not because they fit a certain "party" criteria--especially when you only have TWO parties to choose from... You said so yourself, independence is a good thing.
    #17
  18. pilot

    pilot ...

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    I can't believe it! An inteligent conversation with NO name calling! Someone actually examining their own core beliefs with wisdom! The intestinal fortitude to actually change their opinion!

























    Oh, yeah, I forgot, we are dealing with midwesterners here.
    #18
  19. MarathonMan

    MarathonMan Been here awhile

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    I’ll chime in here. I am pretty neutral on this issue - I don’t have a strong opinion one way or another.

    However, the most compelling argument for the pro-helmet side is the cost issue. Who pays for lifetime care when some dumbshit bounces his head off the pavement and turns himself into a vegetable? The dumbshit doesn’t – very few people have the assets or insurance coverage to fund lifetime care.

    So who pays when the dumbshit cannot? The answer is that society pays. You and I pay for his care in the form of higher health care costs. The costs are passed on to society as a whole. This to me is the most compelling argument in favor of helmet laws. Since the society as a whole will bear the cost, the society has a vested interest in laws that will minimize the cost.

    Just playing the devils’s advocate - no need to flame. :D
    #19
  20. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    Thats a fair arguement Marathon but if you really wanna make that case then shouldnt motorcycles be illegal all together?
    I mean there are safer modes of transportation.

    To really make a lawnmower safe all you have to do is remove the blade
    #20