A Step in the Right Direction...

Discussion in 'Central – From Da Nort Woods to the Plane States' started by The Fist, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. MarathonMan

    MarathonMan Been here awhile

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    Chain -

    I suppose, if you carry the argument to the extreme. It's a matter of degree. Mandatory helmet laws are a middle ground that protect the interests of society, while still allowing the individual to participate in their chosen activity - riding a bike. I follow your argument, but I think the best solutions are usually found in the middle.

    I take it from some of the comments above that you are a Republican. Republicans traditionally dislike government interference in private matters (for example whether to wear a helmet), but also traditionally dislike their dollars going to pay for someone else's problem. Our dumbshit vegetable will have his lifetime care paid for by you, either through higher health care costs or higher taxes (when he becomes a ward of the state and Medicare picks up the tab). You're screwed either way. Either government is telling you what to do, or they're raising your taxes to pay for somone else's screw-up. As a Republican, doen't that present a dilemma for you?

    BTW - looked like a good fall campout and ride. Sorry I missed it. Maybe next spring. :thumb
    #21
  2. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    Excellent points MarathonMan....

    I agree that the middle ground is often the best; but it is difficult to find where to draw the line-- Chain's scenario does present a bit of the extreme but I have to, in some ways, agree with the slippery slope aspect of this argument.

    If we (being motorcycle riders), feel that helmetless riding is unsafe and should be prohibited to encourage safe riding and cut health costs, then who's the say that the regular, everyday, latte sipping, cell-phone chatting, cage drivers are wrong when they say that motorcycle riding is too dangerous for the American people?

    Accordingly, I have to take an "all-or-nothing" approach. This leaves little room for discussion and arguments. Either you're for personal choices and personal sovereignty or you're against them. This makes it easy to decide virtually any and all future arguments.

    But, Chain has yet to tell us why his party wants to force choices like abortion, gay-marriage prohibition, etc.
    #22
  3. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    Babies, Bullets and Business :deal

    Guess im a conservative :lol3


    Born and raised Catholic probably has something to do with that

    Oh well the world needs people like me to keep you libs from running amuck :wink:

    I respect the Views of your politics and dont vote a straight party ticket. Im usually so disgusted by the time the polls open that I vote reluctantly. But I do vote. allways.

    Is there anyplace where you can get unbiased, unspun news coverage on politics?
    I tend to judge a candidate by their voting history.
    #23
  4. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    oh so now its my party :rofl
    I guess its just a platform your party isnt using :lol3
    while the dems are busy trying to disarm America the Republicans are trying to keep babies alive :thumb
    as for gay marriage. another special interest group that represents a very small portion of our population. sorry I just cant get there. I feel pretty strongly about the sanctity of marriage. maybe Im old fashioned but to me the whole idea of marriage has to do with a natural relationship.
    I wont try to pretend to understand the political parties and their agendas, and for abortion, I believe that at times that may be the best choice. ie rape, incest, or mothers health. But late term :huh come on. there are so many options to prevent pregnancy why does Your party believe it is okay for a mother to change her mind after 7 months of carrying a child

    oh Ive had a career change and this baby isnt going to fit in to my plans.

    Life is about choices and late term abortion in my opinion is murder.

    your veiws on this subject may change when you have three or four little willies riding the trails behind you.
    My views have certainly become more conservative in the past 10 -12 years

    say a driver crashes into a vehicle carrying a pregnant mother and God forbid she looses her baby as a result. should he be charged with vehicular homicide?

    great thread got my gears spinnin thanks Fist :thumb
    #24
  5. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    1. Abortion -- I don't think many democrats or other free-thinkers believe that late term abortion is okay... Roe v. Wade outlines when abortion is allowed; and late term abortion is NOT allowed, nor should it be...
    Roe v. Wade effectively keeps the decision to carry a child in the hands of the mother/father (not the government) while at the same time, sets forth time sensitive criteria for when the mother may choose to terminate the pregnancy. This choice is obviously a very personal one and should be left to PEOPLE, not GOVERNMENT.

    As a side note; I find it hard to swallow that most Republicans are Pro-Life AND Pro-DeathPenalty (capital punishment)...how does that make sense?

    2. Gun control/disarming America -- A free society is one thing, but anarchy is quite another. I believe in the old ideology of allowing activities to continue, so long as they don't impede on the liberties of others. Do hunters or other legitimate gun owners honestly need automatic weapons ?

    3. Catholicism-- While I respect the views of those who embrace age-old dogmas and religion; I (an athiest) must say a few words...The American Constitution requires a separation of Church and State; an idea that few Republicans recognize. Consequently, many laws proposed by the "right" are those rooted in religion (ie- marriage, abortion, divorce, eye-for-an-eye/capital punishment, even pro-slavery) and found in the bible. This is wrong. Chain, how do you rationalize this? How is it that you emphasize one's ability to choose and be free, while at the same time endorse laws that do no more than force one's religion on the masses ? As a Catholic whose American presence was historically frowned upon, you surely can respect the need for such a separation, right ?
    #25
  6. bvkamp

    bvkamp agent provocateur

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    :lurk
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  7. Skinner

    Skinner Mr.KTM

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    An old quote I like to think about goes like this " your right to swing your fist ends where my face starts". Kind of simplistic doesn't include all the variables but definately some words to live by.
    #27
  8. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    I like it.... :evil
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  9. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    I didnt know that I endorsed such laws :huh
    Even when our law makers propose a law that may make sense the number of contingencies and riders that are attached are overwhelming.
    I am obviously not as well versed as you in the law making process as you are student of law and I am a carpenter. So for me to argue law with you would be like you arguing millwork and period furniture with me.:turkish



    being Catholic has been frowned on :eek1
    next you going to tell me the American people didnt like the natives :huh
    Catholic and Native American. never really gave it much thought. guess Im fucked. :lol3

    Think Ill get my rosary and a twelve pack and wander back to the reservation :cry

    sorry for the sarcasm I couldnt help myself.

    You seem to have labeled me as a hardcore right winger and thats just not the case.
    My philosiphies are really pretty simple.
    #29
  10. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    Petroleum Recreation

    right or left wing sports?
    #30
  11. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    G'z.... now i feel like an asshole...

    I didn't mean to make sweeping arguments, particularly against the wrong people...

    Chain, let me be the first to say, that I respect you too much to start arguing arbitrarily about non-issues.

    So then, :dunno

    what's the topic of discussion ??

    :wink:

    oh... I got one.... Hey Chain, dont KTMs suck ? :lol3
    #31
  12. kfsinc

    kfsinc Chaingolian Observer Supporter

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    So I'm sitting here in a nice Marriott outside San Francisco, watching the Red Sox Beat Anaheim, thinking -- what a great country!

    Where else can you live like we do, travel like we do, and debate like we do -- can't think of any -- europe may come close.

    In my book there is one basic rule -- 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you', with a few defining corolaries -- the 10 commandments. I'm not very religious and you don't have to be to live by these quidelines.

    That said, the government is trying too hard to force us to live by someone else's definition of what's right. Similar to what religious leaders do with their respective congregations -- and I include ALL the religions. In the end, it's all about power; often (but not always) measured by net worth and/or cash flow.

    Let's simplify things by implementing a zero based law policy -- every law has to be re-written or eliminated after a pre-proscribed period of time. This is similar to the concept of zero based budgeting -- every dollar gets justified everytime it's spent.

    We'd have fewer laws, more sensible laws, and much less government -- we'd also need fewer people to run the thing, so lower taxes...I could go on...

    Isn't it amazing how a bunch of motorcycle riders can have such deep thoughts!

    I can't wait to meet you guys in person!

    kfs

    PS I took a short ride on Rusty's 950 -- what a bike! :nod
    #32
  13. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    Sory Fist didnt mean to lay any guilt on you

    Nor is it my agenda to change or sway anyones politics.
    we are all brought up in different circumstances and have unique inherent traits that guide our opinions. I would venture to say that the variables between your life and mine are as broad as the deep blue, as with anyone else reading this. not that one is right and the other wrong, just different. So I dont find it surprising that our views and opinions differ.

    I agree with sinc in the philosiphy "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
    It seems best to be able to accept that on some issues we will not agree.
    This is the beauty of living in a free society.


    I appreciate your ability to engage in inteligent debate without taking offfense
    and your ability to challenge my views has caused me to look deeper into why I believe what I do. As skinner said, its nice to enjoy such intelect right here in front of the screen :thumb

    sinc, you have brought up some interesting views as well.
    I suggest we start a new political party "The Chaingolian Revolutionary Party"

    next topic of dicussion?

    how about


    swirled peas

    :beer

    cheers chain
    #33
  14. bvkamp

    bvkamp agent provocateur

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    :bluduh
    #34
  15. mutineer

    mutineer pierpont lives

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    I wanna be minister of Transportation - F650 Dakar's for everyone.

    If you only want to ride in the day time you won't need headlights so those guys can have KTM's.


    :wave BVKAMP
    #35
  16. bvkamp

    bvkamp agent provocateur

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    :lol3 Hey Mute! :wave
    #36
  17. Skinner

    Skinner Mr.KTM

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    The only sucky only part is when you take them in for their monthy warranty repair!:nod
    #37
  18. Taki

    Taki Waiting for Godot

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    Big Kadamn is busted. but the little one still runs.

    Glass half full :nod


    See Todd, thats why I have two.

    Can't decide which one to ride because I dont know which ones gonna break :dunno
    #38
  19. chain

    chain Go Fly Supporter

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    you guys are breaking my heart. :cry

    i used to dream of a leaner machine a couple times a week,
    now Im sorry to hear of your broken down gear
    it wll surely allow me to sleep
    for orange and black
    and fightin the fat were only nice from afar
    but now I must say Ill continue my way
    riding the trusty Dakar :nod


    :freaky
    #39
  20. The Fist

    The Fist Knulp

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    She's busted, no shit ? What happened ?
    #40