A tale of 2 factory 660 rally's (thread title change)

Discussion in 'Australia' started by richo360, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Ron50

    Ron50 Long timer

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    You just use an appropriately coloured placky bag slip over. Simples!

    Keeps the contents dry too.
  2. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

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    easy, fall over in deep mud- instant color coordination AND trail cred
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  3. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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  4. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Encouragement award recipient. tEAM iDIOT.

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  5. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    [​IMG]
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  6. richo360

    richo360 Long timer

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    So, yesterday was the day. First ride on Doris, after owning it for more than a year, and starting it twice and one failed start attempt.
    20210112_102124.jpg

    Started straight away, thankfully. May have been dumped in the bush otherwise.
    Like the other 660, it's tall. But it's ergos aren't like the later 04 at all. I'm not tall, but standing on the pegs I feel like I'm crouching in attack position. Weird.
    I'd replaced front wheel bearings and rear brake pads the other week, all seemed good. But 5 mins into the ride, the rear brake went away. Part of the problem is you have maybe 30mm of pedal movement before it hits those header pipes and stops. And blasting headlong into a gravel road corner with suddenly only a front brake isn't the best fun I've ever had.....
    Screenshot_20210113-100319_Gallery.jpg
    Also, in terms of ergos....wtf were Mattinghofen thinking when they designed the rear brake pedals on these things? Why tuck it almost under the fucking cases? For the first 30 mins my right foot was stabbing in fresh air searching for the pedal.
    20210112_112356.jpg
    You have to ride with your right foot pointed inwards. More so on Doris than the later bike.
    Anyway, after adjusting the lever rod, away we went again.
    Bearing in mind I'm fairly confident this is the bikes first ride since Channo crashed it nearly 15 years ago... a short 30 loop through brush roads and easy tracks. A shake down of sorts.
    It's a strange thing this bike. I've got to say, I've done a few thousand kms on the 04. It hauls, everywhere. Climbs a wall of torque right off the bottom, and pulls like a mad thing up to 8500.
    This...... no.
    Starts off ok, torque to say 4000, then it's all over.
    Flatter than Goldie Hawn. It's like the power just disappears. Never ridden anything like it, yes, continue to rev it and it still goes, but it sure doesn't bring a big stupid grin.
    I note it runs 17/40 gearing... the sprockets almost look the same size was the comment from my mate. Wonder if a 16 front would wake it up a bit more, or actually make it worse?
    It feels like my old 400 super comp. Actually, that probably went better up top.
    I rang winna on the way home, he reports his is just as flat and lifeless after 4000rpm. And that's with a freshly rebuilt engine. Obviously, still being the same 654cc lc4, there were big changes from 02. Head, cam, carb and ignition, adding ( in my seat of the pants guestimation) 10 hp and 15 ft lbs, and a much fatter and taller power curve. Night and day.

    Anyway. All things being equal, it's still fun. It's a factory rally, with Dakar and Australian safari history, and it's been ridden by legends of the game. And it's loud, unrefined, smells obnoxiously of unburnt hydrocarbons, vibrates like a jackhammer, and I'm as happy as a dog with two dicks to be its current custodian.

    20210112_153650.jpg
  7. richo360

    richo360 Long timer

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    So moving along... had a chat to a few in the know, and just to clean up a few facts I might have got wrong initially.
    Obviously trying to peice together the history of bikes is a bit like assembling a jigsaw puzzle with bits missing, especially 20 years down the track.

    It seems Doris did the 98 Dakar ( which started between Christmas and new year in 98.
    Then went back to the factory.
    Jeff was instrumental in getting them ( 3 bikes) here to Australia.
    Andy rode Doris in the 99 safari, up until the front wheel collapsed and he ended up in Alice springs hospital with a broken shoulder. Doris wore number 11 that year.
    In 2000 he came back, and won the event wearing number 1.
    He then went on to a later 01 model, all silver. I think that's the bike he drowned? That bike was eventually sold to a German chap from Sydney apparently. Current whereabouts unknown.

    Adrian Channing rode Doris in the 01 safari, apparently crashed and also broke his shoulder.

    In 02 Andy rode a orange and silver 660, which is now with Adrian.

    In 03, another 660, which Winna now has.

    Then 'my' 04, after he collected the bike from France for the Dakar. Which he retired from in the 9 th stage after breaking his foot. After the 3rd stage it had the engine ( in it now) replaced with a factory 700 which he commented in ADB was like night and day. I'm sure Lee Palmer, ktm factory mechanic at the time was instrumental in offering this assistance to Andy.
    After retiring injured, that engine was removed, along with the trick factory WP suspension.
    However, factory assistance again was offered for 04 safari, and a 700 again fitted. Which broke, engine swapped overnight back to the original 'stocker' ( pics a few pages back).
    So the 'stock' engine in it now may have had bits upgraded somewhere along the line when it was out of the bike.. probably at Dakar. Indications are pankel crank and rod, cam, and ignition.
    It certainly would leave Doris far behind, and those bits explain why it goes so well.
    And the reason Doris seems flat by comparison could also largely be attributable to the crap Delorto carby. At one stage a swap to a fcr was looked at, but it simply wouldn't fit.
    Kiwirich, Gonc, moto74 and 6 others like this.
  8. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Richo... great to hear you've ridden "Doris" finally... and pieced together the family history of your two "Rallyes".

    As far as the peculiarities of the ergo's of the earlier 640/660 Rallyes (1997 thru 1999)... yep - they are much more "crouch over the front" ergos that the later "twin split front tanker" model... and that rear brake pedal (which sits directly over the header pipe - routed under the right hand foot peg). Have you melted the heel of your right boot on the collector (immediately behind the RH footpeg) yet? :D

    On mine... I spent a lot of time playing with the rear adjuster rod (up to the master cylinder) to get the right play... I also got hold of another rear brake pedal (can't remember which model) that arced out a little further from the ignition cover case - but still above the headers. I remember exactly the "pigeon toe" sensation you described when I read that. :rofl

    As far as the flat spot and the carburetion... I had a Mikuni on mine (tossed the Del 'Orto) and had the head and ports cleaned up to same/similar as the later +01' generation 660 Rallye... night and day. :1drink

    Glad to read that you have gotten the old dinosaur firing in anger again. :clap:thumb:asta

    LC4 620 C2Coast.jpg

    LC4 620.jpg
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  9. richo360

    richo360 Long timer

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    Yeah, noted @troy safari carpente , but I aint interested in tinkering with history.
    They rolled out of the factory with shit Dellorto carburettors, thats how this bike is going to stay.
    Same with the rear brake foot pedal.

    This bike, given its scarcity both here and globally, the 99 isnt going to be ridden much. The later one, sure, I'll still punt it around a few times a year as I have. Bits are a lot easier to come by for that one.
    I really just wanted to ride it to make sure it goes.
    troy safari carpente likes this.
  10. 0405canvet

    0405canvet Long timer

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    I don’t understand having a motorcycle just to look at. It’s like having a supermodel girl friend.... just to look at??
    Now if a Bultaco Metralla was in my dining room, I might understand.
    troy safari carpente likes this.
  11. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Ah yes... :1drinkwhat was that word @richo360 used recently... :dunno ummm... what was it now...? :hmmmmm
    ... oh yes, that's right... :evil "HOARDING" I beleive it was...? :brow

    :shog paging @tonyubsdell to the right of reply white courtesy rant phone please... :augie:norton
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  12. richo360

    richo360 Long timer

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    Problem is @0405canvet , 8 bikes.
    They can't be ridden always.
    But will be rolled out of the shed when time permits regardless. Some more often than others.

    And Troy..... not the same argument.
  13. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

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    For Richo, it's more like having a super model posing whilst you enjoyed both of the other girlfriends? Who are olympic gymnasts.....
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  14. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    :photog
  15. 0405canvet

    0405canvet Long timer

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    Years ago, on a t-shirt:
    “Have you hugged your motorcycle today?”

    Many have saved my sorry, untalented arse but none enough to keep around. I envy you guys that are nostalgic enough to see past the toy stage....
    .:beer
  16. johnno950

    johnno950 Long timer

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    The best way too think of these bikes is like the top slice of a bread loaf,every one touches you but no one wants you
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  17. bigborett

    bigborett Hipster Supporter

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    I have a couple in my lounge that won't be sold quickly. From my mediocre racing career and connection to my now much loved and departed father. Most of the others get ridden or there is a plan there.
    Nothing wrong with hanging on to them if you can.
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  18. bigborett

    bigborett Hipster Supporter

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    Then there is my SE.
  19. richo360

    richo360 Long timer

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    Hmm. I get what you're saying.
    But I very much doubt many on here would pass up the opportunity to own a factory rally bike.
    Time, place, opportunity. 99% of bike enthusiasts would.
    Besides, I like crust.
    Adventcha UnCut likes this.
  20. JustBob

    JustBob Uh...who me? Supporter

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    Richo360 said...."This...... no.
    Starts off ok, torque to say 4000, then it's all over.
    Flatter than Goldie Hawn. It's like the power just disappears. Never ridden anything like it, yes, continue to rev it and it still goes, but it sure doesn't bring a big stupid grin."

    This got my attention. I have a 2006 660RFR that was on the Portuguese team (I think) back in the day. But I have been trying to solve the same problem you have with this bike. Since it bogs a bit above half throttle I have been chasing mixture. Idle is great. I started at a 170 main jet and am now down to a 160 with noticeable improvement to about 2/3 throttle. It's a Keihin Flat CR 41 that I took off the bike and it's clean as can be. Float appears to be proper. Main jet now at 160 the bike REALLY pulls to just a bit past half. It's noticeably better than with the 170 main. So I thought I'd check the needle position but there appears to be no way to adjust it. It's not one of those tapered needles with slots but to adjust height. It's just a needle without taper best I can tell and no easy way to remove. (Actually there was an Allen screw but it didn't appear to do anything and I was afraid to screw it up.) I can find no, and I mean no, information on my particular model.
    So if any of advrider braintrust can shed light on all this I sure would appreciate it. If I can get the mixture right so that this thing can pull into when the cam comes on...oh boy...hold on because it is really strong to 2/3's and has good low end tractor power too.
    A pitcher 20190307_083820.jpg !
    zzzak, LC8TY, braaap! and 2 others like this.