ADV Routes FKT - Fastest Known Time

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by DirtyDog, Nov 1, 2020.

  1. DirtyDog

    DirtyDog Omnia mea mecum porto Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,904
    Location:
    Tulsa... it's OK
    Gauging interest here. Not really racing, but this is maybe? the most relevant sub-forum. Maybe ride reports?

    Would it be worthwhile to have a thread for keeping track of all the fastest known times (FKT) for ADV routes such as the Trans American Trail, BDRs, state routes, and other established, popular rides?

    FKT is a concept used by the hiking world and it’s pretty simple. They maintain a list of the people with the fastest known time to complete an established route. They have a lot of different rules, but an important one for here could simply be that it’s for amateurs only. Times would have to be documented or verified somehow (like with a gpx, in a ride report on ADV, or other write up). I certainly wouldn’t want to get into the minutia like an IBA certification, but we could keep it simple and mostly based on the honor system with a bit of proof (aka trust but verify).

    Given the nature of ADV riding, an FKT doesn’t necessarily equate to riding fast, breaking speed laws, etc. but could reflect endurance or just plain luck. Some riders are competitive types and like to do it for the challenge more than for the scenery. Could be a good resource for those riders. Other riders take offense to the concept of “speed runs”... at least I’ve gotten some pushback on it in the past.

    Thoughts?
    #1
    Mrstig, jay547, StanBo and 1 other person like this.
  2. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Oddometer:
    11,158
    Location:
    The Bluegrass
    Salem Oregon to Nicholasville Kentucky , including Crater Lake and Big Basin National Parks visits and a ride up Pikes Peak. 6 and one half days.
    No one will care.
    #2
    adam71 likes this.
  3. DC2wheels

    DC2wheels Castle Anthrax troll Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Oddometer:
    7,993
    Location:
    N.H.
    Let's see- the thread is about fastest known times but poo poos some of the IBA's superman or woman's feats?

    How about Coney Island NYC to the Golden Gate bridge. In 38 hours.

    Not me but one of the 19 others that started that event.

    BTW, all 20 of us made it to SF in under 50 hours.
    #3
    AZbiker and AwDang like this.
  4. DirtyDog

    DirtyDog Omnia mea mecum porto Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,904
    Location:
    Tulsa... it's OK
    I did nothing of the sort. Read again. And congrats.

    The scope of this thread is ADV routes. That means dirt, and I provided some examples. :deal
    #4
  5. DC2wheels

    DC2wheels Castle Anthrax troll Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Oddometer:
    7,993
    Location:
    N.H.
    My error. Oops!
    #5
    DirtyDog likes this.
  6. Snafu2

    Snafu2 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Oddometer:
    314
    Location:
    Devon, England
    I think it would be better to suggest a time taken doing a route rather than the fastest, you're asking for people to beat any fastest time given. A local road book route to me ended up being a speed challenge and in my youth there were several attempts at the FKT for the M25 London orbital motorway.
    For example The TransEuroTrail for UK suggests 20 days, if people found it much different to that they could say so.
    #6
  7. DirtyDog

    DirtyDog Omnia mea mecum porto Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,904
    Location:
    Tulsa... it's OK
    Would that even be possible? Seems the "suggested time" would be based on opinion, among many other variables. That question may be best answered by the people designing or advertising the routes (e.g. Backcountry Discovery Routes in the USA), but they are hesitant to do it. If such a thing were out there, then sure, I agree that it makes sense to include it for context.:thumb
    #7
  8. Snafu2

    Snafu2 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Oddometer:
    314
    Location:
    Devon, England
    May be "suggested time" is the wrong term. I'll give you example
    I have a route that I use often, if I just go and ride it at a sensible but no stopping pace it takes me about 5 hours. If I take group and they stop for pictures/smokes/falling down/fuel food etc etc it take me twice that. I don't need to quantify that by giving a track log and a definitive time so there's nothing to beat as such. Maybe I'm over thinking it coming from an enduro bike but trail riding background where often people don't race but feel the need to keep up or prove something.
    #8
  9. DirtyDog

    DirtyDog Omnia mea mecum porto Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,904
    Location:
    Tulsa... it's OK
    Yeah, @Snafu2, FKT is the kind of thing that would only appeal to people looking to test the limits.

    It's as simple as a list of established ADV routes and the fastest known time to complete them. Of course, the routes do evolve over time. For example, if someone did the TAT 15 years ago, it only spanned TN to OR, whereas now, it begins farther East. So the context of a date might be needed. Other ADV routes might be more cut and dry.
    #9
  10. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Oddometer:
    12,416
    Location:
    Omicron Persei 8
    Put it in Trip planning. It ain't racing as it has been described.

    In my not so humble opinion an adventure rider who did the trip the slowest and got the most out of the areas visited should win the prize.

    Do the ride as fast as you think makes you a hero, then post up a ride report in the Epic Rides section and see just how many people are impressed with your achievement.

    Wanna go fast and see how good you are? Enter a real race.
    #10
  11. Crash217

    Crash217 The short guy with a beard

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,074
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    I think the IBA rule of gas receipts confirming mileage and time heavily applies to @DirtyDog ‘s original idea.
    #11
  12. panhead_dan

    panhead_dan This aint jo daddy's Grundle.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Oddometer:
    6,783
    Location:
    The Great PNW
    I made it from the tavern in Roosevelt, WA to home in Hermiston, Or in 45 minutes on an '03 Buell Lightning. Does that count?
    #12
    Bultaco206, larryboy and DirtyDog like this.
  13. benjamin1031

    benjamin1031 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Oddometer:
    319
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Living within a stones throw of a lot of BDRs I think this is a fantastic idea and one I would be very interested in. I did an IBA on my S10 just to take say I had done it. While it was an achievement it was harder fighting the boredom than anything else. Something like the COBDR in say under 24hrs would be not only a test of endurance but also NOT boring. Interested to see where this goes!!
    #13
    Mrstig, Crash217 and DirtyDog like this.
  14. DirtyDog

    DirtyDog Omnia mea mecum porto Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,904
    Location:
    Tulsa... it's OK
    Well, I think it has to be a crowd-sourced endeavor. I think I may have two FKTs for the list. It’s a bit self-serving for me to start an official thread based on that, so I’m eager to hear some others.
    #14
  15. Snafu2

    Snafu2 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Oddometer:
    314
    Location:
    Devon, England
    This is just the sort of thing not to be encouraged and is not what the creators of BDR and other such routes envisaged for their work.
    https://ridebdr.com/ride-respectfully/
    The COBDR route notes suggest 4-6 days. Please don't associate such routes with going as fast as you can, somebody will always go quicker.
    #15
  16. HBSURFDAD

    HBSURFDAD Oops, Sorry Supporter

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Oddometer:
    960
    Location:
    Huntington Beach. CA, USA
    For some reason this reminds me of all the Lowered Honda "race cars" we have all over southern California. I chatted with a group of them and they all were the fastest things ever, but all refused to do any sort of sanctioned racing (Parking Lot time trials/gymkhana type stuff that is all over here). I guess it is easier to "Win" when the other drivers don't know they are racing.

    If you want to go fast, go fast, but do it in a way that doesn't wreck things for other riders. D37 has all sorts of events that you can race on street legal bikes, the 790's in the H&H races are epic. Find something that is legitimate and controlled so you know who and what you are competing with.
    #16
    AZbiker and troy safari carpente like this.
  17. benjamin1031

    benjamin1031 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Oddometer:
    319
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Not to be encouraged? Sometimes people are internally driven to test their own limits of endurance. The routes are just that, routes. To use at the travelers discretion for what ever means or ends that individual sees fit. I respect that you don’t agree or want this to be done. I would just humbly ask that people who would find this interesting or worth doing would get the same in return.


    This isn’t a race against others it’s just an individual trying to not stop more than he has before. Much more like an iron butt than an enduro. It’s not about riding as fast as you can, of course be respectful on the BDR or whatever route you choose but riding a bike is tiring especially off road, the trick isn’t to go fast it’s to save your energy riding conservatively and stop less. In fact, based solely on speed limits for the entire route you could have a minimum time that anything faster all would know you broke the law and we could all publicly shame them.
    #17
    Mrstig, Crash217 and DirtyDog like this.
  18. HBSURFDAD

    HBSURFDAD Oops, Sorry Supporter

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Oddometer:
    960
    Location:
    Huntington Beach. CA, USA
    "it’s just an individual trying to not stop more than he has before"


    Then why do you need feed back from others, why does it have to be posted? Publishing a number makes it a target or a point of bragging.

    I do this sort of thing all the time (most people do), but it never occurred to me to say I made it from X to X is this time, look how cool I am, and how slow you are.

    IBA rides are like a bicycle century, not a race but an established challenge for people to meet, not easy, but not impossible. This FKT thing sounds like a race for people who are afraid to race officially.
    #18
  19. DirtyDog

    DirtyDog Omnia mea mecum porto Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,904
    Location:
    Tulsa... it's OK
    Because it's fun and some of us aren't physically challenged or mentally inspired by a group ride at a prescribed pace.

    :photogSpeak for yourself, man.

    Some of us are inspired to test the limits of endurance beyond speed.
    Planning, strategy, focus, conditioning, speed, luck, etc. all play roles here. All of the same factors valued in an IBA, which you seem to venerate. The difference is, this is on dirt.
    #19
    Crash217 and benjamin1031 like this.
  20. Snafu2

    Snafu2 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Oddometer:
    314
    Location:
    Devon, England
    Yes, I've the greatest respect with what ever someone wants to do and like a challenge myself. I just think that publishing FKT encourages people to beat it and so on until it becomes a danger to others. Looking at the Colorado route it would be in the region of 28mph average over a 24 hour period, is that doable/reasonable it sits nicely with the IB challenges. I see that as the difference between doing it within a certain time as opposed to as fast as you can.
    #20
    AZbiker and troy safari carpente like this.