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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by DirtyDog, Nov 1, 2020.
Just for fun I googled AT FKT
Look at that. A time was logged and people went out and beat it......
So publishing on a ride report, regionals, or facebook group is seemingly OK, but in one centralized location isn't?
I agree and as such when I ride, I try to follow common courtesy.....even when the truckers driving logging trucks in the areas don't. Nevermind the inconsiderate deer. That said, I personally don't see that you can't have speed in areas, while still maintaining courtesy and respect to those around. Though yes, it is easier to assume that most people are complete idiots.
That aside, what about a ride such as this: http://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/dusty/index.html 1000 miles, 24 hours, all off-road.
Responsibility is preventing the crash in the first place. How do you "Take Responsibility" for your actions when the person you hit spends 6 weeks in a cast, or is dead? "Sorry you lost 6 weeks of your life, but I was making great time trying to impress idiots who are too afraid to do a real race"? Posting on the internet that you went from GJ to Denver at 120 MPH for all to see takes a special kind of stupidity (a good made up example)! Also, you keep going back to the Cannonball, it's published so people want to do it, see how the publishing causes issues? People are killed by street racers, not just the idiot racers. Yes, everybody speeds at times, but to promote it is just not responsible to others.
When I got hit and the shithead bailed, I learned a lot of things in those 6 weeks of no surfing or riding. There are really just 2 kinds of people in the world, those who are part of the "Problem", and those who are part of the "Solution".
"Problem" people say and do things like:
"There are those who would dare to push the limits anyway", Violence and Logic won't stop us. "I want to do this, screw whoever else is impacted". The crotch rockets that go down the freeway at 140mph, that makes all riders look bad.
Volunteer to put on races, advocate for riders access, Create BDR's, try to make the world a better place for others, not just have fun themselves at the cost of others.
Humans need to push limits in life, that is the essence of living. But push the right limits. Challenge yourself to do something grand for you, maybe enter a real race, go to a track day, or ride a black diamond trail. Don't endanger grandma by trying to get to Starbucks (or Denver) in your best time ever.
The fact that there are strong reasons presented for the "No" side, and the only argument for "Yes" is "but I want to and you can't stop me" tells me that this discussion will never get out of the Logic versus emotional loop. For the "Yes" people, good luck with life, I believe luck will be a factor in any success you have.
nope, no responsibility.
by that logic, youtubers are responsible for 99% of all the "hold my beer" moments in the last 25 yrs. I don't here about to many lawsuits.
how many people go out a buy a motorcycle after seeing some awesome ride report or watching some racing on TV. Is the X-games responsible for some kid hurting them selves while trying to learn a back flip on a dirt bike.
I should not be liable for other people doing stupid things, even if they are copying the stupid thing I did.
As far as laws, its all a matter of scale, and circumstances. Pretty much everybody exceeds the speed limit by 5-10 mph. Sometimes its the guy driving 55 when everyone else is going 75 that causes the most danger.
Going 10 over in a school zone is not the same as going 10 over on the interstate, and for the most part law enforcement practices reflect societies position on this.
Egads. Think of the children!
Dusty Butt 1000 (1,000+ miles in less than 24 Hours ALL off-road!):
Name State Date Motorcycle Dirt Paved Total
Tim Roush FLORIDA 04/27/19 Honda Africa Twin Adventure1,111 59 1,170
Karl Pirchmoser Australia 05/21/17 Yamaha Super Tenere 1,274 10 1,284 Dusty Butt 2000K
Thomas Ingrey Australia 04/16/17 Suzuki DR650 1,033 20 1,035
Russell Smith Australia 04/16/17 KTM 1190 Adventure R 1,033 20 1,035
Ed Gerner Australia 04/16/17 KTM 1190 Adventure R 1,033 20 1,035
Craig Harcombe Australia 04/10/17 Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin 1,014 31 1,045
Martin Steenkamp South Africa 09/12/15 BMW R1200GS 1,080 45 1,125
Wilrie Claassens South Africa 09/12/15 BMW R1200GS 1,080 45 1,125
IBA Finland Dusty Butt 1000
Johan Gronholm Finland 06/10/12 KTM 640 Adventure 1,002 101 1,103
Hampe Hammarberg Sweden 06/10/12 Honda XL 1000 Varadero 1,002 101 1,103
Pentti Hartikainen Finland 06/10/12 KTM 990 Adventure 1,002 101 1,103
Sakke Hayrinen Finland 06/10/12 KTM 640 Adventure 1,002 101 1,103
Ari Korhonen Finland 06/10/12 KTM 640 Adventure 1,002 101 1,103
Sauli Saksman Finland 06/10/12 KTM 990 SM 1,002 101 1,103
Robert Slattmyr Sweden 06/10/12 KTM 950 R Super Enduro 1,002 101 1,103
Lars Svensson Sweden 06/10/12 BMW R1200GS 1,002 101 1,103
Wexell Patrik Sweden 06/10/12 KTM 950 R Super Enduro 1,002 101 1,103
Dan Huber CO 06/14/08 BMW R1100GS 1,005 58 1,063
Beth Huber CO 06/14/08 BMW R100GSPD 1,005 58 1,063
Con Barnard SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1200GS 1,036
Hubert Barnard SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1200GS 1,036
Leon Botha SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 KTM 640 1,036
David Braun USA 10/02/04 BMW F650 1,036
John Bredenkamp SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 KTM 640 Adventure 1,036
Jacques Breytenbach 10/02/04 KTM 640 Adventure 1,036
Marcel Breytenbach 10/02/04 KTM 640 1,036
Vic Campher SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 KTM 640 1,036
Jaco Du Toit SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1150GS Adventure 1,036
Josef Fourie SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1150GS 1,036
Danielle Fourie SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1150GS 1,036
* * * First South African woman finisher of the Dusty Butt * * *
Fred Frost SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BWM R1150GS 1,036
Baymen Greenfield SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1100GS 1,036
Glen Grundy SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1150GS Adventure 1,036
Elroy Haasbroek SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW F650 1,036
Lionel Haggard SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1150GS Adventure 1,036
John Hammond SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 KTM 640 Adventure 1,036
Geoff Larney SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW R1150GS Adventure 1,036
Gary Law SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BWM R1150GS 1,036
Gary Pretorius SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW F650 Dakar 1,036
Craig Trickett SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 KTM 950 1,036
Michael Trickett SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 KTM 950 1,036
Henri Van Wijk SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 Suzuki DR650 1,036
Dave Venter SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 Triumph Tiger 1,036
Francois Venter SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 KTM 640 1,036
Shaun Venter SOUTH AFRICA 10/02/04 BMW F650 Dakar 1,036
Peter Hennes NAMBIA! 02/24/04 KTM LC4 620 1,002 12 1,014
Dusty Butt 1000
Dan Huber CO 05/17/03 BMW R1100GS 1,028 48 1,076
Mark McMullen CO 05/17/03 Kawasaki KLR650 1,028 48 1,076
Will Allender CO 05/17/03 BMW R1150GS 1,028 48 1,076
Lee Garrett KS 05/17/03 BMW R1150GS 1,028 48 1,076
Jen Allender CO 05/17/03 Suzuki DR650 1,028 48 1,076
* * * First woman finisher of the Dusty Butt * * *
George Evans NE 05/17/03 Kawasaki KLR650 1,007 48 1,055
That sounds like a cool challenge, I am all for stuff like this as long as it is not through someone's yard or on a forest road that has a 25 MPH posted speed limit. I bet there are spots in rural NV where you could really have fun with this. A 100-200 mile loop of dirt highways like the roads into Sandy Valley.
This is very different to doing the BDR as fast a possible to me.
I agree... Who are you (or any of us), to tell anyone else what those limits are?
"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins." Oliver Wendell Holmes
You should not put others into a position to share in your risk taking without their consent.
This is the difference between a race track and public roads, the consent of all parties.
Which is why I would slow down around others as to respect their sensibilities. Like I stated earlier though there is a lot of open room on some of these routes with minimal intrusion into others "space"
There is nothing wrong with taking a risks and when you beat everyone else's time is a great feeling, but for crying out loud, do it on the race track not on public roads (Paved or dirt). Sure there are plenty of places on many of our commonly used "Adventure" routes where you can safely go WFO and where your risk taking will not endanger anyone but yourself. But you can see just from this thread that there are those out there (like you apparently) who don't understand the potential impact of their actions. Please tell us where these places are on the CDR, or the TAT where you plan to slow down. If you've never been on one of these routes before how are you going to determine ahead of time where these places are? I'm getting the feeling that you are a 16 year old n00b that's only dreamed of following one of these routes. Please post up your experience to back up your playground smack or stfu.
Limits, like speed limits are put into place for the better of society as a whole, to protect the masses from the people too stupid to know better. Too many idiots on display and riding may be banned altogether in some areas (it has already happened). As unfortunate as it is for the rest of us in this discussion, you represent us when you are on the road, we are just trying to protect the rest of us.
Why can't you make a route of your own that doesn't upset society? Go do your thing without impacting others. 1 person wants to speed on a route, 10 people don't want people speeding, and these are the people who developed the route. If you want to go fast, build a track, don't take someone else's work.
You have mentioned how responsible you are multiple times, go create something for you and others with similar desires as you. This may be your calling.
got me all figured out. I’m telling my mom...
There are already people who live along the eastern TAT and NEBDR who complain about riders speeding on their roads.
To us, a section may look wide enough and smooth enough to go a bit faster and have some fun. I get it. A road marked 25 is surely safe for a narrow motorcycle to ride a bit faster. We also may be riding 200 or more miles which might be tedious at 25mph if the road looks wide and smooth.
To the residents, it is (or was) a low-traffic place that's safe for kids to play on a barely-used dirt road. These are roads where there may have been zero through traffic. Publishing the routes for TAT and NEBDR has changed their road and their life already.
Publishing FKT will piss off the residents more even if they never know that FKT is causing it.
EDIT: I intended to write MABDR above. Came out NEBDR. @AwDang corrected me below. NEBDR residents haven't had as much traffic yet.
^thats a fact
The OP of this thread is from Oklahoma - a whole world away from places like New England where people live and recreate along these routes (dog walking, jogging, horseback riding, bicycling). They probably are clueless as to what other areas of the country are experiencing from the impact of these major D/S and ADV routes.
I am a BDR ambassador and part of the NEBDR development team along with @FreeTheBeast who posted on the previous page. In developing the NEBDR, the entire team very much worried how the route would impact our local communities - and it has! We went out of our way in planning the original route to lessen that impact to the greatest extent possible. And still then, we have had to make several changes from the original route due to the very issues described above of locals getting upset or riders not respecting others along the route.
Along with the NEBDR route, the BDR has released the Ride Respectfully campaign to help educate riders in how we can help our own destiny by adhering to a few tenets and keep the tracks we worked so hard to build so others could enjoy them for generations to come. I strongly encourage each of you to ride by these guidelines - as the group most likely to benefit by it is the ADV community.
Believe it or not, we have dogs, joggers, horses, and bicycles here too. We even wear shoes.
You can save your condescension and I don’t appreciate being called clueless.
You are correct. Personal attacks on another inmate are generally frowned upon.
That doesnt change the majorities opinion that it's a bad idea.
Being called clueless for being unable to see that may be wrong but it offers an explanation that beats the alternative.
This was in no way a personal attack - what I'm saying is that someone living in one area of the country proposing this idea for routes across the country DOES NOT WORK. They won't have an understanding of the dynamics in other areas of the country in terms of public opinion on these routes running through various areas. To do it in a regional forum is one thing, but not as a blanket statement. The OP most probably has never ridden/resided in the Northeast and thus they likely have no knowledge of what is happening here.
And it's best not to fan the embers glowing around the country right now.