ADV Routes FKT - Fastest Known Time

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by DirtyDog, Nov 1, 2020.

  1. jay547

    jay547 Long timer

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    It seems that not a lot of "adventure" goes on in the Perfect Line forum.

    Condescension somewhat intended.
  2. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    When it comes to adventure riding I wouldn't really care what was the fastest. That's why there are four lane highways - to get there the fastest. Not much adventure there for me. I want the crazy ass back road ways. Kind of reflected in my signature. Do I go left or right? Which looks the most adventurous?
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  3. benjamin1031

    benjamin1031 Been here awhile

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    wouldnt that be the same in reverse? Where you wouldn’t understand what it’s like to be hours away from the next structure or person? And why some of us westerners might be a little more open minded in regards to “spirited” riding on some of these western routes?
  4. AwDang

    AwDang Enabler

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    Absolutely, except....what you publicly do out west (with BDR’s) effects all of the BDR organization, routes and advocacy.
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  5. HBSURFDAD

    HBSURFDAD Oops, Sorry Supporter

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    “Spirited Riding” is MUCH different from fastest time. I very much enjoy going fast in the right area on the right tracks. A BDR is not the track for Spirited Riding. There are some sections of the CABDR that are fine for having a little fun, but there are also sections where “10 over” can get the whole thing closed for everyone.

    All it takes is a few idiots to ruin it for everybody, and posting about your stupidity only magnifies the issues it can cause.
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  6. flei

    flei cycletherapist

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    How many people who developed BDR routes and are Ambassadors need to chime in before we reach consensus that racing to establish the fastest time is a bad idea?
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  7. Mrstig

    Mrstig Been here awhile

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    I've been on a bdr for 5 days and only saw 5 vehicles on the gravel sections. And it was in August. In Oregon. I love the endurance idea. I did Chicago to the west coast in one shot solo before.
    I understand and respect the folks who don't want racing on public roads and endangering others. I agree. This is exactly why I sold my street bikes. I couldn't ride on the street and enjoy it safely. The nearest track is over 5 hours away for me.
    But at the same time, I love covering extreme distances in the least amount of time I can safely do so. I can't afford to race baja or any other sanctioned endurance races. So I'm all about this idea. That being said, a public display of times is never going to work. Too many variables and liabilities and people are too competitive to be safe and know where the line is.
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  8. RonSJC

    RonSJC Long timer Supporter

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    If you want to race, hit up the local MX track on your ADV bike. You will turn more than heads :). Trying to break a time record you will miss what is the essence of a BDR route: The scenic wonders, the history, the camping and the sheer enjoyment of exploration at your leisure. The other consideration is when you are traveling on public lands the best way to get them shut down is to have the Forest Service or the BLM consider ADV travel a liability or a nuisance and then we all loose. We at the BDR are doing everything we can to keep routes open. Just a few complaints from local businesses, land owners, or townsfolk can cause a re-route, or worse a completes shut down of a section of a route. We need to all embrace the "Ride Respectfully" attitude delineated by the BDR to ensure riding opportunities for generations to come.

    https://ridebdr.com/ride-respectfully/
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  9. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    I get it. Seriously. And you're right, there is a big difference between cutting loose a little in an appropriate area where no one sees you or riding from 6am to midnight to see if you can "get somewhere" versus trying to beat a posted time. I like to have some fun and I'm not always.a boyscout in remote areas but if there are any houses, campgrounds, dispersed camping, folks fishing , basically any sign of human activity I dial it WAY back. If I was in competition mindset I know I would rationalize it being ok to not slow down as much just to make up time I perceived I had lost elsewhere and to make it that much harder for the next guy to beat my time. That's human nature and why this whole FKT is a bad idea.

    Most Enduro races which travel on public roads in part acknowledge this human trait and make it so that travel time on the public road sections are NOT part of the timed event.
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  10. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    I believe you when you write that you think you would slow down. I suspect that during a ride to post a FKT, your "slow" becomes much faster than someone who is out to enjoy a few weeks of poking around.

    Competition causes people to focus on winning. Trying to post a FKT is racing. You can admit that or not. With that racing, the rider's focus changes to getting through quickly.

    I've had enough close encounters with people coming around blind corners way too fast and taking up the whole trail. I'm really not interested in more or what their justification is; I'd rather they just rode responsibly.
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  11. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    The OP mentioned the TAT. That means about 1/3 of the ride will be in the east.

    I think if there's a central place to brag about FKT, that all trails in the east will eventually be posted and raced.
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  12. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    I haven't read everything here, so I'm just finally catching the drift... some of you want a Cannonball Run on bikes on back roads. Not thinking this is the best idea out there. In fact it is totally inviting danger to people who are not involved in the runs.

    If you want that kind of sport you need to start organizing Motorcycle Rally runs, just like the cars. A couple days of blocked off back road routes for timed speed runs and then timed runs between that are under speed limits. One scored on lowest time, but the other scored on accuracy of time enroute to the next timed speed run, scored on a Poker Run kind of multi stops with time clocks, max points for running on time, loss for over or under.

    Reward the speed in the blocked off runs and reward adhering to the clock in the runs between. No reward for unnecessary risk between the timed speed runs.

    I would hate to be someone out cruising along some back roads in their truck/jeep or on their motorcycle encountering someone racing. The risk of a head on with someone racing just doesn't sit well.
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  13. AwDang

    AwDang Enabler

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    Not really the gist of the discussion, sorry.
    What’s proposed is a list / DB / record of fastest known time on established routes.
  14. GravelRider

    GravelRider AKA max384 Supporter

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    Well I've got to say, I think I changed my mind on this idea. I was definitely very much so in the pro-FKT crowd. But there have been a lot of great points made. I'd love to know the information, but having it publicly posted would end up turning it into a race in neighborhood roads, which wouldn't be good for anyone.

    This being said, there have been a bunch of asshole condescending comments made with name-calling that aren't changing anyone's minds. Catch more bees with honey than vinegar saying comes to mind...
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  15. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    How do you think that fastest records are set? Duh! People pushing the limits of speed and handling on a course. When you make the course open public roads you are endangering anyone who might be on those open roads. Unless you can close off the courses, all that is being done is to intentionally promote hazardous riding. Like the Cannonball run

    New Cannonball Run record is set in just 25 hours and 39 minutes - thanks to coronavirus: Illegal road race from NYC to LA averages 112mph with top speeds of 175mph after pandemic left streets free of traffic - click here

    You think those roads were always traffic free? Now picture encountering a bike hammering some back roads at triple digit speeds or sweeping around a corner a bit left of center to go faster.

    By the way the previous record was only 2 hours slower, so the average was 102 mph.

    Yeah, a cross country run on "established routes" makes sense... not!

    It's a freaking race.
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  16. AwDang

    AwDang Enabler

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    I don’t think anyone posting against FKT is also posting against closed course timed events.
  17. andrewgore

    andrewgore Gôremā

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    In theory, couldn't there be an "absolute best case" scenario formulated for each route? IE, if the speed limits are known, one could calculate an absolute best case for a given route. If someone goes quicker than that....then chastise them. :dunno

    I'll also just assume that everyone here adheres 100% to posted speed limits, rules, and regulations at ALL times? None of you have modified exhausts, non-DOT tires, modified headlights\blinkers etc.....After all, all those things give us motorcyclists a bad name.... :amazon

    And just because....
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  18. AwDang

    AwDang Enabler

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    All of this has been discussed already
  19. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Sure, do an enduro type event. Like I said earlier and was hinted at that I was not on the same page:
    • Actual closed road portions rewarding the higher speeds if so wished.
    • All routes between are timed with a reasonable expected speed that allows for some time taken by traffic controls and possible conditions. After all an enduro off road only has a 24 mph speed timing in most cases. Sure there are slow parts that may need made up with a bit more speed, but that should be minimized. They use surprise checks to catch riders who try to race up, but not quite to the end, then sandbag it to hit on time.
    That would make sense to me. If it was adventure related, the closed course could actually be off road too.
  20. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    If it's all been discussed then the thread should be closed.