Adventure Spec Magadan Panniers

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Fern-, May 17, 2012.

  1. DustiZoki

    DustiZoki He is rich man...tell me where did he travel..?

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    This is my solution regarding hard and soft luggage as I am able to use them depending where I go....using existing racks for hard alu panniers I made my own soft waterproofed bags wit special hangers on them so I can hang them in about 5 min.

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    #41
  2. DustiZoki

    DustiZoki He is rich man...tell me where did he travel..?

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    #42
  3. Colebatch

    Colebatch "Moto Porn"ographer

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    Thanks for your feedback Chris. Just found this thread, so getting around to addressing some of the questions in it ...

    The decision making process in using velcro in the design rather than the buckles I had on my earlier Steel Ponys, was that with the Ponys the front buckle ended up under my ass, sandwiched between my ass and the seat all the time. It was uncomfortable and I felt it had to go. The only way to avoid that with buckles is to try to move the bags further back, and thats against the philosophy of the bags in the first place, which is to be able to get the weight so much more forward than hard luggage.

    My experience having had 3 sets of the bags on test across Siberia last summer, was one the bags are fitted adjusted correctly, they never needed to be adjusted again on the trip, and they stayed permanently on the bikes, with only the inner bags ever coming out.

    Certainly, if you were using the bags differently and preferred buckles, you would be able to fit buckles as you described.

    A further issue I had experienced with buckles and this may be specific to my bike, was due to the bulk and inflexibility of the buckles, it was not possible to run them under the seat (as I can now in the pic below) as the buckles interfered with either the fuel pump under the seat or the subframe / rear plastic. Depending how tight you have it adjusted, the buckle could sit directly on the subframe arm and that would result in the buckle snapping pretty quickly. As can be seen below with the fully flexible velcro straps, that's not an issue anymore.

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    #43
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  4. Colebatch

    Colebatch "Moto Porn"ographer

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    As the designer of the bags, let me address you questions:

    Firstly, the Magadan bags fit about 35 litres per side (total of 70 litres). The Kriega 30 is 15 litres per side (30 litres in total). The Great Basin is 50 litres in total. So they are over twice the size of the Kriega bags and 40% more capacity than the Great Basin.

    That means the bags are designed for a different purpose. At 15 litres a side, the Kriega set up is along with the GL Coyote, a short trip set up. Maybe a long day trip, maybe a weekender. See below, Kriega's pic of the bags in action ... on a two stroke enduro bike ... carrying enough for lunch and a few spares maybe. But you cant go 3 months across Siberia to Magadan with this much luggage.

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    I have similar sized GL Coyote on my Husaberg. Again, same deal. Great for a weekender. Its designed to be quick and easy to strap on to a bike and throw a small amount (30 litres) of stuff into. And thats what I use it for. Could I do any adventure travelling in remote areas with the Coyote for 3 months? No of course not, its not what it was designed for.

    As for the Great Basin. GL upped the capacity to 50 litres, and retained the convenience of being able to throw the bag over the saddle. It's designed for convenience for the occasional traveller (no racks required) and the larger capacity means its suitable for trips of slightly longer duration. Maybe a 1-2 week trip in Australia or Morocco, or US off road. For me the bag compromises weight distribution for the convenience of mounting. The 50 litre capacity of a great basin is made up of approx 30 litres above seat level with two 10 litre bits coming down each side. See pic below:

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    So from that you can see the centre of mass for the Great Basin (GB) is going to be just ABOVE the rear seat level, and behind the rider.

    Compare that with this:

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    Where the centre of mass of the bag is both further forward and about 45 cm (18 inches) lower. Thats a LOT lower.

    Next question I have for the GB as it applies to my type of travel is that in my experience, 50 litres is not enough capacity for long distance adventuring, even for the lightest packers (in my experience camping gear alone is about 35 litres - tent, sleeping bag, air mattress).... see pics below of three different riders, three different bikes, on three different long distance adventures ...

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    Which means even as a light packer on a light bike, you will have to pack another bag or strap a fair bit of stuff to the outside of your GL bag as in the pics above. Since the GL GB bag occupies the seat area behind the rider, you cant put it there, you have to strap it so it both HIGHER and FURTHER BACK again. In both pics above, the riders have about an extra 20 litres of volume. Both have about 70 litres all up ... but compare that luggage weight distribution to this pic below: The GL setups have 50 litres above the seat level and 20 litres below seat level, whereas the Magadan bags carry all 70 litres below seat level. Thats a massive difference in weight distribution.

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    Terry (above) has about 70 litres of luggage, in the form of 35 litres per side, very low and well forward.

    Thats what I mean when I say in my view the GL system compromises weight distribution for convenience of mounting. And the size is insufficient for transcontinental travel. You need additional bags and there is no good place to put them because the GB bag itself takes up the space immediately behind the rider.

    For many people it will be good enough. But I wanted to put something together that wasnt just good enough but was as good as you can get it. My experience is that luggage weight lower and further forward makes a huge difference to the stability and handling of the bike. Getting the weight as low and as far forward as possible was the priority in considering the placement of the luggage.

    Last summer we travelled with one pannier bag full of camping gear (one tent, one sleeping bag, one large air mattress and some plates, cups and utensils fitted neatly in one bag). The other pannier took clothes, spares, tools, etc.

    As for being cream of the crop ... I didnt decide to build a bag cause I want to make a living out of selling bags. I just wanted to build the ultimate bags for my own adventures, (my own adventuring needs are extremely demanding and I found out the hard way that nothing else out there is up to the job) and the fact is others liked my ideas and wanted them and Adventure-Spec wanted to market them. So the bags were actually built to meet my needs - which are pretty demanding. After the materials we put into these bags (full 1000D Cordura construction, fully lined with Kevlar-Twaron, separate waterproof inner bags, best Delrin buckles we could source, from Sweden, triple stitched, made in Europe etc etc) ... I dont consider the others to be cream of the crop. If I thought they were well designed for my needs, or cream of the crop quality, then I would have used them and not built my own.

    The other bags have no security features. They are not slash proof, they dont have the facility to be lockable. They dont use Kevlar / Twaron in their construction, let alone line the entire bags with it. The Magadan bags, in addition to their advanced material sandwich construction, offer for the first time ever in soft luggage, the ability to not only lock the bags shut, but to lock the bags to the bike. None of the other soft bags on the market have ANY security features at all. None of the others are slashproof, none of the others are lockable.

    The whole idea behind these bags, were that as far as my needs go (and for sure, everyone has different needs) the bags are a zero compromise product. I wanted something that ticks all the boxes, not just some of the boxes. And I wanted something which didnt compromise in getting the weight as low and forward as is possible.

    Like I said, they wont suit everyone. If you are only going to use them for occasional weekend rides once or twice a year and need some luggage to throwover a dirt bike, which normally has no luggage on it, then the GL product is designed for you. But if you are looking for RTW or transcontinental soft luggage - I obviously would recommend these. Cause as far as I am concerned they are by far the best thing on the market for that purpose. I would even go so far as to say they are the ONLY soft bags on the market designed for international or transcontinental adventure travel. Otherwise I wouldnt have built them. I am not in the luggage business. Its just a one off because there was nothing else on the market that did the job properly. There was nothing else on the market designed by someone who actually does transcontinental, developing world, off road riding, and understands the needs of that kind of riding.

    I am not trying to sell you on this stuff, just explaining the logic and reasoning behind the bags and the features of the bags, and why I made them the way I did.
    #44
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  5. Colebatch

    Colebatch "Moto Porn"ographer

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    The body of the bags are TRIPLE stitched.

    There is additional stitching and riveting at load bearing points.

    Where the straps attach to the bag is the key load bearing point and where I have had trouble with other bags in the past. I am pleased to say that after the very stressful and brutal ride last year (see the ride report thread) there was no problem with any of the load bearing points, or with the bags in general. They (along with the Excel A60 rims) were the most bulletproof bits of aftermarket gear I had on the bike.
    #45
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  6. bigdon

    bigdon Long timer

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    They work well on a DRZ!

    Packed for a week in the Smokey Mountains.

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    #46
  7. Ballbearing

    Ballbearing Adventurer

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    Will Wolfman gen2 racks, say on a DR650, put the bags in a proper position?

    It appears that those racks would need to be modified to allow the bags to hang in the "Colebatch" position...according to the pics anyway.
    #47
  8. bigdon

    bigdon Long timer

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    The bags in the DRZ photo are mounted on Wolfman Racks!
    #48
  9. Ballbearing

    Ballbearing Adventurer

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    They look good. I can't tell from the picture, but are they pushed forward to keep the weight in front of the axle? That was my concern I guess. My gen 2 racks center the bags over the axle. In order to mount them like Colebatch I'd need to move them forward. That would require some fab work. Realistically, though, for my style of riding, I'm not sure I would benefit from doing that. Stock may work just fine.
    #49
  10. mcgarrett

    mcgarrett Been here awhile

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    If anyone has pics of an install with Touratech pannier racks and Rok straps, I'd greatly appreciate it. I can't seem to find the best way to minimize forward and backward movement of the bags. Thanks.
    #50
  11. khpossum

    khpossum poster

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    Hmmmm. I just bought last week the Wolfman Rocky Mountain bags after 4 weeks of going back and forth which one to buy. In the end it came down to what the adventure-spec website says: 50 liter total capacity. I could not overcome that despite all the other advantages of the adv spec bags. I travel lighter every year, but I am not quit down to 50 liters, so I went with the 70 liter Wolfman bags. Sounds like I could have made it with the Adventure spec bags after all.

    I went back to the website and just now saw a recent posting, a very interesting posting, that compares volumes of different bags and how non scientific volume quotes are: See here.

    BTW: last year I borrowed a set of Giant Loop Great Basin Polish knock-off bags for a 5 week Central Asia trip and I did not like them much. As mentioned by others they mount high and packing / unpacking is a chore. They were not under consideration this go around.

    KP
    #51
  12. kk3an

    kk3an Adventurer

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    My Mags are mounted to the Touratech mounts. No movement unless you really force the bags to move with your hands (while riding they do not move).

    An even more positive bag-mounting method would be to "choke" the straps while looping around the pannier mounts to eliminate slack in the straps, but I've not found this necessary.


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    #52
  13. mcgarrett

    mcgarrett Been here awhile

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    Thanks kk3an. What are you using to secure the bags?
    #53
  14. kk3an

    kk3an Adventurer

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    I'm using several of the 1" wide straps purchased from Aerostich, but really any good 1" wide strap will do.

    Dan
    #54
  15. mcgarrett

    mcgarrett Been here awhile

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    Dan,

    I can't quite tell from the photo how you have the straps routed. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
    #55
  16. mcgarrett

    mcgarrett Been here awhile

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    Dan,

    Noob mistake on my part. I didn't realize there were slots behind the pockets. I've got my straps routed through there now, and I think it should work fine. Thanks.
    #56
  17. kk3an

    kk3an Adventurer

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    OK. I also have one strap running to a sewn loop under one bag, then over the top & across to the other and fastened to the other bag's matching loop under the bag. This allows you to tighten that strap as necessary to control sag if you're loaded heavily.

    Dan
    #57
  18. Chris S

    Chris S Been here awhile

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    Good explanation. Never used Steel Ps or the like.

    You mention the finest Swedish clip buckles, but beating the dust out of mine prior to washing last week, one chipped, so a bit on the brittle side.

    The only thing I have added are attachment loops on the 4 lower inside corners. As you may know others on A Spec have suggested this feature and the official reasoning (‘they’d rip off in a fall’) was not so convincing.

    On this trip I didn't use the velcro throwover element and instead attached each bag semi-permanently to the separate removable side racks, using the vertical Pacsafe hoops, some chunky zip ties as well as my DIY corner attachment points (see pic). These help increase secure mounting options and spread the shock loads. Would be good to see on future versions to create the perfect overloading pannier, IMO.

    Sewn on properly with a chunky bit of webbing, D-ring and elastic ball bungies, as well as the all-important horizontal around-strap, it’s hard to see these corner tabs getting ripped off. (I figured the vertical around-strap just got in the way of access; never had a use for the Pacsafes either, though good to have that option).

    Fwiw, my racks had a 2-3 inch ledge which helped reduce the strain on a loaded bag's fittings; ‘better sat on a ledge than hung from a wall’ when rattling over washboard (but that's another discussion).

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    #58
  19. N-m

    N-m Captain 2 Sexy

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    Can you provide pics of the asks unloaded?
    #59
  20. Chris S

    Chris S Been here awhile

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    I presume you mean bare racks?

    I had a few shots but lost them when transferring from iPad to Macbook out there. Thee's a bit more here. Sold the bike with the racks

    They're a prototype idea from Al Jesse and he's asked me not to spell it out until he's ready as the production version is much refined. It includes a novel concept that I must say, appeared to work on my CRF and would suit bikes like it.

    Al just told me they'll be 'debuted in North Carolina when we go there mid June' A BMW rally?
    #60