Adventure Spec Trail Riding Gear: very interesting development

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by dragos, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. STLR

    STLR Been here awhile

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    Mine do not have knee armor pockets, and are meant to be worn over braces. You’re correct that the OTB Mongolia Trail pants do have the pockets for knee armor. As was stated, both pants have hip armor pockets.
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  2. Tizzle

    Tizzle Workin' on it...

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    There’s no rule that says that all your gear has to be from the same manufacturer. Get a pair of cheap waterproof pants to put over the AS Atacamas. If you have your heart set on matching gear upgrade when AS comes out with theirs.
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  3. yoohah

    yoohah Been here awhile Supporter

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    Sometimes there are some advantage of the matching garments. For example there might be attachments of the shell layer to jacket so they work more as one unit when dress/undress.

    But you are right otherwise no rule so I am most propably going to the AS direction.
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  4. ScooterNoMore

    ScooterNoMore Been here awhile

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    Do you have an arrival date for the shells yet? Thank you!!
  5. yoohah

    yoohah Been here awhile Supporter

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    Because of availability of the AS shell (fall) I ordered the Klim Overshells. Great product and sizing. I need the shells this summer riding. The AS shells might be the next products I buy, after Klims have worn out.
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  6. davidlomax

    davidlomax Been here awhile

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    As far as I can see from a quick first look the main diferences between the garments are as follows (I don't have a MM Basilisk here with me, this is based on what I can see and read on the website) :

    The construction of the jackets are similar, being non-lined 3 layer garments.

    Both jackets are designed to be used with a seperate armoured layer.

    The body fabric in the AS Trail Jacket is a 210D Nylon 6-6 ripstop fabric compared to the Basilisks Nylon 70D x 160D. Overall this suggests that the body fabric of the AS Jacket will be tougher and more tear resistant, but slightly heavier.

    On high wear areas the MM Basilisk has superfabric patches overlaid on the body materials creating doubled up material layers, whereas the AS Trail Jacket is mainly a single thickness of Kevlar based material. This almost certainly makes the AS Trail Jacket more breathable around the shoulder and arm regions, but potentially less durable.

    The impact/abrasion fabric on the AS Trail Jacket is based on a Kevlar technology making it highly resistant to both rip and abrasion. The Basilisk jackets base impact/abrasion fabric is a 600D Polyester (which is a relatively cheap tough fabric), but is then covered with small plastic dots that convert this into Superfabric. Without testing it's hard to be sure, but my guess would be that the Superfabric of the Basilisk Jacket will probably be more abrasion resistant than the Trail Jackets Kevlar, but more prone to tearing.

    The Basilisk has 6 smaller vents vs the AS Trail jackets 2 larger vents. Again without experimenting its very hard to say, but my guess is that the Basilisk Jacket will probably vent slightly better, but will be more prone to leaks.

    Pocket configurations look similar, the AS Trails upper pocket is externally accessed, the Basilisk appears to be internally accessed.

    The AS Trail Shell seems to have more reflective strip than the Basilisk.

    The MM Basilisk has an internal 'Dirt Skirt'.

    The AS Trail Shell has an internal helmet compatible hood.

    Without more details from an owner or MM it's impossible to say which jacket is lighter or packs smaller.

    The MM Basilisk Jacket is $599.00 from their US Warehouse (MM Don't seem to have an offering from their European warehous yet)
    The AS Trail Jacket is $399 from our US Warehouse and (£375.00) From our UK Warehouse

    Hope that helps.
  7. Oldsport79

    Oldsport79 Adventurer

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    This is an example of the kind of company that I want to support. AS is willing to give an honest review and comparison of their competitors. AS praises what MM does well or better than AS, and highlights the areas where AS is better without putting down MM.
  8. AdvNener

    AdvNener Been here awhile

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    @davidlomax I understand that the AS waterproof jacket doesn't include impact protection and is designed to be worn over body armor, that's fine. But this also means it is a jacket "of its own" and not only a rain jacket? Is it adequate for say backroad riding (90kph speed)?

    If yes, then your website page is not really clear about it and it may be bad from a sell numbers perspective, reading it you don't really know if it is designed to be worn over a linesman jacket or not..

    Also will the different AS jackets get the CE certification for mortocycle garments?
  9. davidlomax

    davidlomax Been here awhile

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    All good questions and perhaps we aren't being as clear as we should be about what our various garments are for.

    Each is part of a layering system that is ultimately very flexible, each piece designed to be used in conjunction with others to create the 'system' that you want.

    This jacket is certainly not something that I would ride by itself without any other protection.

    It's primary function is to be light, keep you dry and protect itself from brush and impact damage in a crash as best it can (for a very lightweight shell).

    Impact areas will provide a good level of abrasion resistance against Tarmac, but it isn't a Badlands Jacket.

    Personally, I wear this over an armoured base layer when I trail ride and if I get cool I ads a Hybrid Jacket under it to keep me warm.

    With a high quality base layer providing impact protection and this shell layering up for weather and abrasion assistance I would expect to be able to take multiple off road tumbles without too many issues and I would be happy riding this combination on Tarmac at speed, although I accept that a fast Tarmac spill would probably destroy the jacket.

    Used over a Linesman (with armour in) I'd feel happier still on tarmac as I'd have a double Kevlar protective layer in impact areas, and again although I'm not sure the shell would survive a fast tarmac spill, I'd feel pretty safe under both layers up to back road speeds.

    In answer to your other two questions...

    This jacket will layer up well with a Linesman Jacket and give you the extra abrasion support you might need if you are intending to spend time on Tarmac roads.

    With respect to CE certification I'm afraid the Trail Shell will never pass certification because the three main levels (A, AA, AAA) all require clothing to provide impact resistance. And as the jacket has no armour it does not qualify for testing.

    However, out other garments do, and they are actually off to the testing labs over the next few weeks to see how they perform.

    There are many angles to the 17092 testing program, but the ones most riders are discussing are the abrasion testing, the materials tear strength and the seam burst tests.

    As part of our testing we will be asking the labs to take a look at the Kevlar materials we use to see how they would fair in a full certification so that at least we should be able to give you some indications of how abrasion resistant the high wear areas of the trail shell are.

    I hope that helps a little.

    Ride safe!
  10. davidlomax

    davidlomax Been here awhile

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    Y'know, I can't remember a better time to be a dual sport rider. When I think back 20 years to the kind of stuff we used to ride and look now at the strength and depth of product that we get to play with I'm always amazed.

    Oddly, I'm as excited about what MM are doing as I am about what we're doing. It's really cool to see someone elses fresh ideas about solving the same problems that we care about, and for me more choice is a great thing for us all. I hope there is enough business to see us all prosper in our market and I genuinely wish the MM guys all the best with their ideas.

    As long as no one is going down the dead end route of ripping off others ideas for a quick profit (which is really sad) I think it's all positive stuff.

    When you're passionate about your sport or past time you can't help but love it all. If you're a gear loving ADV geek, there has never been a better time to ride!!!
  11. AdvNener

    AdvNener Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the detailed answer! Very nice to plan to have some partial standardized results for the trail shell even if it can't be certified because no impact armor.
  12. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    That's super interesting. I'd imagine the mesh jacket will reach AA at least...
  13. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams Supporter

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    @davidlomax what is the membrane in the trail shell? Are there any plans to make a jacket with the same spec/materials as the pants?
  14. davidlomax

    davidlomax Been here awhile

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    The membrane we have chosen to use in our waterproof clothing is a Hydrophylic PU coating. We took a good look at all the options and eventually settled on our own spec of coating to meet our exact needs.

    In short, for extended expedition use this form of membrane has a number of advantages over microporus films including strength, toughness, windproofness, a wide range of chemical and solvent resistance, excellent odour barrier properties, and less risk of leakage in the event of stretching damage occuring.

    It is also easy to manufacture and stick to face fabrics making the final layered fabric a really cost effective way of getting an ideally specified consistent performance fabric.

    In answer to your question about future pants and jackets...yes, we have quite a number of new garments already in the pipeline!
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  15. Hankus

    Hankus Been here awhile

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    There is room in the market for uncoated fabric clothing. Especially in really hot climates its vastly more comfortable. The Klim pants are a good fit but for the super baggy knees and the hot sweaty feeling. Yes, even the mesh versions are miserable in hot humid climates.
  16. ThirtyOne

    ThirtyOne I got my wings back. Supporter

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    Is there any way to tell the newer version from the older version? I just received my Mongolia jacket from AS USA, arrived to Connecticut where I am currently, and once I put the armor in the forearms are extremely tight with no base layer, just a short sleeved t-shirt.

    Or maybe it will break in a little over time? Headed back to Honduras next week and then will be riding around Guatemala for a while. I was really hoping that this system would work out. The rest of the kit I ordered from you guys fits spot on.
  17. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    I've noticed this. My Rev'it Gear 2 mesh/leather pants breath much better then the Klim Dakar OTB pants I have in VA's humid climate. I think Klim optimized for the standing position.
  18. davidlomax

    davidlomax Been here awhile

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    PM'd...
  19. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams Supporter

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    Thanks. Makes sense. I've had bad luck with coatings flaking off in the past. Admittedly, in lower cost outdoor gear. Cheap rain jackets etc. That said, the coating on my marmot precip pants has been stellar. How does yours compare?
  20. davidlomax

    davidlomax Been here awhile

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    It's common these days to get a lightweight jacket with either an external treatment on the face of the outer fabric, or what is now called a 2.5 layer fabric...which, is a coating on the inside of a fabric with a protective finish.

    All of our waterproof materials are true 3 layer constructions. There is an outer fabric with a durable water repellant coating that can be washed back in if it wears off or reactivated by a quick run in a cool tumble drier (this is NOT the waterproofing for the garments, it just helps water to roll (bead) off the outer fabric.

    Then, behind the face fabric is the clever bit that takes moisture away from the inside of the jacket and transfers it to the outside. This is a separate fabricated layer that is laminated (stuck) to the face fabric.

    Finally, we have an internal layer to make up the 3rd layer of our 3 layer fabric and that protects the waterproof middle layer of membrane.

    This all looks like a single thickness of material, but it isn't really. It like a sandwich construction.

    So, our waterproof layer can't 'wear off' because it's a physical thing stuck between two other layers.

    Like anything else the garment will wear out eventually, but not by the waterproof membrane being rubbed or flaking away.

    Hope that helps!