Africa Twin CRF1000L suspension

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by uk_mouse, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. bbanker

    bbanker Been here awhile Supporter

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    Yeah I wasn't trying to discount Greg's videos at all, just asking. I really don't think I have the chops as a mechanic to do it anyway so when the time comes will send my stuff off to somebody.
  2. Greg the pole

    Greg the pole There are no stupid questions, only stupid people

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    Trust me, the vids suck. I'm in them:jack
    If you're tackling the fork swap only, it's easy enough. The only real speciality tools you need is the spring compressor, and a decent vice, with soft jaws.
    Re-valve is a different ball game.
  3. bbanker

    bbanker Been here awhile Supporter

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    Fortunately I live 2.5 hours from Cogent Dynamics.
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  4. Greg the pole

    Greg the pole There are no stupid questions, only stupid people

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    well...there is that yes. Can't go wrong with Cogent.
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  5. Amphib

    Amphib A mind is like a parachute....

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    Ha, I'm 20 minutes from there. Should do a mini AT gathering when you schedule it.
  6. bbanker

    bbanker Been here awhile Supporter

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    Absolutely!
  7. Junglejeff1

    Junglejeff1 Long timer

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    I would be interested to know what your oil height is with springs in also.I don't use Hyperpro springs because they don't tell me the rate.May be good springs but knowing the rate is mandatory for this guy.That oil height is just crazy low unless those springs are really super thick. The oil height is mainly for end travel resistance to add bottoming resistance. I have done everything you listed and more.I have one of the last sets of tubes that Rick hard coated before he ran into issues with the anodizing shop doing work for him.Danco in California does the anodizing work for racetech and they do a nice job as I have used them multiple times.Hardcoat will not fix these tubes because of the known flex issue on these tubes.I believe you will find your shock is pretty bouncy in rough terrain without the rebound stack being built up.It does not have enough resistance to handle the stock pen spring honda installed at least for serious dirt work.At the moment I use .82 cogent springs and racetech compression valve with Motociclo rebound stack in fork.The shock is a full build from Cogent that Rick let me keep for testing with a 10.3 spring.Shock is a nice piece of work with a hi speed adjuster added that allowed me to really dial in.
  8. Mercenary

    Mercenary Mindless Savage

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    My local dealer has a reg AT and an ATAS parked side by side in the showroom currently. I was eyeballing the front forks on the ATAS and they do look a bit thicker to me. I'm wondering if these uppers will definitively fix the premature wear issues? Or is it too early to tell?
    NC Rick likes this.
  9. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    Is the root cause of AT fork issues (stiction, wear) the upper fork tubes' coating or design/dimensions? ATAS upper tubes are known to have different dimensions, and appear different in color of coating, but whether or not they have a different coating from std AT tubes is not confirmed (and really can never be confirmed unless Honda chimes in).

    This ^ is the pivotal issue in whether or not proper fix with OEM parts is:
    A) ATAS upper tubes, aftermarket coat or not
    B) Std AT upprt tubes, definitely coated and preferably when brand new

    I placed my bets on ATAS tubes fix based on at least one report here of 10 kms with no issues, the loose consensus from those in the know here being that the coating of std AT tubes is the not the root cause given bushing/clearance concerns, and the simple fact that the ATAS tubes are different from std at least dimensionally.
  10. Danodemotoman

    Danodemotoman Have MC will ride

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    Impatiently waiting and waiting and waiting to hear more reports of the AS upper tubes being the end all of the stiction problem.
    I very much appreciate the time and $ expended by those who are searching for a long term fix. THANK YOU!
    I have been silent for some time. Pissed that I have to me an expensive bike including aftermarket springs and valving plus accessories and still can't ride the bike comfortably. 2016 with 6k mi. Fortunately I have multiple MC's to ride but no other ADV bike.
    Local Honda dealer shop manager was zero help and did not even ask me to bring the bike in to inspect the fork action. Just denial.
    I went out for a short street ride last week and it was so damned uncomfortable that I came back after 50 mi and parked it with a cover.
    Honda really fucked up the AT with these inferior forks. I regret my purchase. American Honda further fucked up by by not warrantying the forks.

  11. BronNowo

    BronNowo Been here awhile

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    imagine what a bike it would be with WP progressive suspension the one 790R is getting....
    Honestly I refuse to pay that much for a premium bike and still have to replaced suspension on my own.
  12. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    If ATAS tubes are the fix we hope they are, I'm still glad to have a Honda. If I wanted airbox issues ruining my brand new motor, I would have bought a 1190. If I wanted to be stranded with fuel pump issues or dirt in my fuel, I would have bought a 690. It's telling when guys are retrofitting CARBURETORS on their 690s. I'd rather have the fork issues. The jury is still out on the 790.

    Will I buy another Honda ever again? Nope, but then again they did nothing for me when one of their dealerships f-ed me on the sale of the bike (long story not really Honda corp's fault but they still should have done something - posted about in the problems thread). Pretty sure the only brand I'll ever buy new is a Yamaha. FZ, MT, XSR, Tracer, YZ250, they're all pretty damn impressive. If overall brand trends continue, the T7 will be the reliable 790. One or two 500 EXCs going RTW doesn't make an entire brand reliable.
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  13. BronNowo

    BronNowo Been here awhile

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    to be honest I don't think so Yamaha is any better then honda, my new xt660z had clutch issues form the factory, non grease on any axles on the bike, speedo broke at 26k km, rust on some bolts...
    I am not impressed with MT series as well, engine look not durable, long distance unit for me.
    I agree though I prefer to have such "minor" issues like forks then been stranded because of fuel pump.
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  14. Reidy008

    Reidy008 I,m in if we go fast

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    I put race tech springs and did the shim stacks up front and a race tech spring in the rear with a spacer. I have had the forks apart twice since due to fork seal leaks and now have the Kawi seals in. My suspension guy who has over 40 years experience says the inside of the forks have some lines and what not but are fine.. he shows me each time has them apart. I ride the bike hard and in terrain most won't, I have done multiple week long trips with my daughter and the bike loaded to the gills and have over 22000 miles on it. I don't think the forks have had any issues other than how soft they were from the factory. If there was a stiction problem what is it exactly i would feel? Is it the fork compress and then not return? Can some one help me out here..? I am wondering why so many love them and have had no issues and then so many have?
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  15. gve.mcmlxxiv

    gve.mcmlxxiv 2016 Africa Twin DCT No.272

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    so...still waiting on parts but I got all the tools i need so i took the right fork apart. still plenty of fluid in the fork even after bleeding fluid out on my last ride when the seal failed. I took the fork apart to get a headstart on the work, the fluid was still a dirty pink, this was a pleasant surprise. not like sludge that some of the other guys have poured out. The outer tube does indeed have a mark on the interior but it looks smooth, just a change in color. I haven't experienced stiction but i'm replacing with ATAS tubes while i have it apart and replace springs and seals.
  16. gve.mcmlxxiv

    gve.mcmlxxiv 2016 Africa Twin DCT No.272

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    you would know!
  17. gve.mcmlxxiv

    gve.mcmlxxiv 2016 Africa Twin DCT No.272

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    IMG_0560.jpg
    My new cogent straight rate spring next to stock progressive. The higher rate portion of the spring is very small. 4 inches or so.
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  18. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    Did I miss something here where it was already noted 2018 standard ATs (not the ATAS) also have forks that are the darker gold-bronze color, the fork color we're all used to seeing on the ATAS. Not the straight gold like first year ATs?

    What first made me notice - this guy's 2018 AT std forks clearly have the darker color:
    https://advrider.com/f/threads/new-adventure-riders-early-thoughts-on-africa-twin.1374111/

    Then with 30 seconds of Googling, found this - 2018 AT std and ATAS side-by-side, both appear to have forks with the same finish/color:
    https://goo.gl/images/nfKKpk

    What might this mean, if anything, for the fork stiction/wear issues? Would Honda issue a new PN for 2018 AT std upper fork tubes if all they changed from previous years was color/coating?

    EDIT:
    Just checked Honda parts for upper tubes - they did issue new PN for 2018 AT std upper tubes:
    2016 AT std 51410-MJP-G51
    2018 AT std 51410-MKK-D01
    2018 ATAS 51410-MKK-D21
  19. HerrDeacon

    HerrDeacon Been here awhile

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    My understanding of the matter was the different part numbers correlate to Honda using the new Kashima coating instead of the regular anodizing they used on the '16 and '17. This new coating is probably a different colour than the bright gold used on the first two years. I may be totally off base with this but that was my take on it.
  20. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    HerrDeacon, where did your understanding originate from? Your take is exactly what I am prodding for - but as is the overarching theme of the fork issue, it's all speculation without a lick of confirmation from Honda. I don't know what I'm looking for...someone with insider knowledge!? But was also just bouncing this observation off the rest of the forum, would have thought someone else would have noticed the now darker color forks on the 2018 AT std...or perhaps my eyes are just off. That said, I haven't followed every last post about AT suspension/forks...maybe I missed someone else noting this very same observation.