All the oil came out the bottom drain plug!!

Discussion in 'KTM 950/990' started by TheLimeyID, Jul 9, 2019.

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  1. TheLimeyID

    TheLimeyID Off road n00b

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    I got a 2006 950 Adventure S a couple of months back; a lot of fun, but some headaches too.
    Most recently I had a clutch plate bolt fall out as I left the gas/petrol station. I didn't know what the noise was but thought it must be related to my previous problem which had been a lack of hydrolic clutch fluid.

    Not being too far (about 10 miles) from home I thought I would nurse it home. Nope.

    After a couple of miles the noise was worse and ther oil light started flickering, so I stopped.

    When I got it home (on a trailer) I removed the clutch cover to find a slightly mangled bolt, a nice groove worn in the case and a broken spring. ...and all the metal that had been part of the case was now in the oil. =S

    I drained the oil, cleaned BOTH oil screens, replaced the filter, put in new bolt and spring, added new oil (4L? the manual says 3L!!!).

    NOTE: the bottom oil screen one was THICK with metal shavings, which I assume stopped oil getting through causing the oil light to come on. The tank screen didn't have much on it at all, and the filter itself looked surprisingly clean.

    I started it up and after a few seconds of clattering the oil got round and everything seemed ok. After shutting it down to top up the oil (as instructed in the manual), I left it running to get up to temperature to get a good check of the oil level. It ran ok, bit then started clanking a bit (seemed like the left side of the engine) and the oil light started flickering.

    I figured it had collected some more metal on the bottom oil screen, rather than lay it on it's side to clean the screen I decided to dump the oil, clean the screen, then put the oil back in. ...in hindsight I think I should have just laid it down. The screen had quite a bit more metal in it, which is removed now.

    And finally to the point of my story, when I took out the bottom drain plug A LOT of oil came out. Judging by the 4L bottle I caught it in (with the side cut off) it must be nearly all of it. Is this bad?? I thought most of it stayed in the tank. ...I had a sod of a time removing the left gas tank while it was FULL of gas in order to achieve the same thing for the first emptying. I'm worried that there is some serious damage somewhere, but I'm not sure what it would be. I'm assuming it would be the oil pump that sends the oil back to the tank, but wouldn't it just pump all the small bits of metal that got through the bottom screen into the tank?

    I'm scared I've bricked my engine already, and that it'll be off the road for another two weeks! ...motosport.com held my order because of a back order of the top screen (which I realised I didn't even need) but they didn't bother to tell me! I only found out when the parts didn't turn up when they should and I checked on them!

    Sorry for the long post, I wanted to include the back story so you'd have a better understanding of the issue. Also thanks to everyone here for an incredibly useful forum, I've already used it a lot!! I'll be getting a year support package as soon as my wife isn't likely to kill me for spending more money on stuff related to this bike (I already had to have the fork seals replaced).
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  2. TheLimeyID

    TheLimeyID Off road n00b

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    ...I was just laying in bed thinking about it, and it occured to me...

    If the bottom screen was sufficiently blocked by further metal that it trapped, then the oil pump might clank due to insufficient oil going through it, AND not much of the oil would be in the tank because it wasn't getting pumped back up!

    Does that sound plausible, possible or likely?

    In which case I can just put the oil back in and repeat the cleaning process until the screen stays clear?! ...I may try laying it down for subsequent cleanings.
    #2
  3. GezwindeSpoed

    GezwindeSpoed Been here awhile

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    Can the check valve in the oil line be stuck in open position by metal shavings?
    #3
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  4. zimtim

    zimtim Adventurer

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    Check valve on oil tank can stick not cheap and you can't get a rebuild kit.
    Oil pressure pump behind clutch, means stripping out clutch basket . You can get the various components to rebuild that.

    I would as precaution take cam covers off just to check if any shrapnel in there unlikely but also check your cam chain tensioner any shrapnel will stop these working properly.

    Get some cheap oil and do several oil changes to flush out as much crap as possible.

    I had an unrelated issue but had shrapnel in oil system. I filled oil flushed, filled ran up to temp and flushed, filled ran bike for 100miles and flushed then 500 miles finally at the 1000 miles I was not getting any shrapnel
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  5. KTM267

    KTM267 Adventurer

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    I had a different issue that resulted in metal in the oil as well. I found that most of it collected near the flat oil screen at the bottom so I used a flexible magnet pen to fish around where the screen lives and get as much out as possible before putting oil back in. Then I did several oil/filter changes as suggested.
    #5
  6. KTM267

    KTM267 Adventurer

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    Scratch that - it sounds like you have aluminum shavings. Mine were steel from the valve buckets. I should read more carefully... carry on.
    #6
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  7. roookie1

    roookie1 Been here awhile

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    And it is only 3 liter oil..
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  8. TheLimeyID

    TheLimeyID Off road n00b

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    Thanks for all the replies!!

    I'll take a look at the check valve. I poked it gently with my finger while I had it disconnected before and it came back up, but it may need cleaning, so I'll give that a go.

    I remember thinking "That's odd", when I saw the oil level go down after I initially filled the tank, I assumed it was some weird KTM thing. I guess it was the check valve stuck open. :(

    ...I suppose that's how I got so much oil in. The valve was letting it though while I has trying to fill the tank. I guess I should have actually measured the oil, rather than just filling the tank. I ran out at 4qts, not 4L, but more or less the same; that registered on the dipstick though.

    Hopefully I can clean it, it's $68 for a new one. =S

    I'll take at look at the oil pump as well, and at taking off the cam covers. That sounds a little more involved, but I'll give it a go.

    1000 miles before all the shrapnel was out!!! Wow!!

    I did buy some cheap oil to use for flushing, then thought "Nah, there can't be that much metal in there, it'll be fine" and went straight to the good stuff. Guess I'll be using that after all.

    Yes, thankfully that does seem to be the case; and it would be very nice to be able to magnet it out. Stupid aluminium! :(
    #8
  9. nk14zp

    nk14zp Long timer

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    Only takes one little lump to keep the check valve open.
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  10. TheLimeyID

    TheLimeyID Off road n00b

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    I have my fingers crossed for the check valve just needing a clean. I miss riding! ...I don't want to wait another week for another part! :fpalm

    ...I'm hoping I don't have any clients tomorrow so I can work on it. :-)


    I haven't sold my '93 600 Katana yet, so I used it for my commute last week. It feels gutless after the KTM.
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  11. nk14zp

    nk14zp Long timer

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    Try my 89 klr if you want to ride a turd. 950s spoil us with power.
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  12. zedtours

    zedtours Been here awhile

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    I would also consider removing oil tank and flushing out!
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  13. TheLimeyID

    TheLimeyID Off road n00b

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    Ha ha!! My friend has a KLR 650 (newer than 89 though) and yes it is somewhat lacking in power. 84MPH flat out downhill with a tailwind I believe. ...he did just install a new air filter that apparently gives him upto 2HP more though! lol

    His KLR is how I ended up with the KTM. He bought it so he could keep up with me on my Katana. However, not having that much riding experience it scared the heck out of him. I tried it and loved it, and here I am! ...fixing it every couple of weeks. =D
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  14. TheLimeyID

    TheLimeyID Off road n00b

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    I suspect you're correct about that being a good idea. There wasn't much debris in the oil screen inside it, but I'm going to have to take the gas tank off to get to the oil check valve so if that goes smoothly (or really badly to where I'll be waiting for a new one to arrive) I'll see about cleaning that out as well.

    ...I new deep down I should have stopped straight away, not try to ride it home. Oh well, another lesson learned the hard way. Could have been worse though, at least I didn't melt the entire clutch bearing like this guy!
    #14
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  15. charlie264

    charlie264 Long timer

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    All you can do is flush the engine with cheap oil changes, otherwise is a time consuming exercise. I'd pull the clutch cover and replace the oil pressure valve, it was upgraded in 09. You'll also be able to check the oil pump. The gear shift sprung wheel was also updated in 09 so might as well replace that.

    60038010133 PRESSURE PUMP HOUSING CPL.
    60034024144 LOCKING LEVER CPL.

    Yes I'm biased but with the newer oil filters with the built in valves, I'd use one of these or other supplier.

    https://www.ktmforum.co.uk/adventure/1272345-charlies-oil-filtering-cover.html
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  16. TheLimeyID

    TheLimeyID Off road n00b

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    OK, I located the oil pressure valve, the oil pump housing and the gear locking lever on the motosport.com parts diagrams and in the repair manual. I haven't got into an engine that far before. =O ...I was pleased with myself for getting the clutch plates out and back in. =)

    So, I basically just remove the full clutch cover and the clutch basket. Then I can access the oil pumps and the shift lever? It sounds easy.

    That sounds interesting. Is it a special oil filter that you change each time, or something that goes inside a regular oil filter and you keep using?
    #16
  17. DirtyADV

    DirtyADV Long timer

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    Hooking up an oil pressure gauge might be worth it.

    Was years ago but have replaced the spring that regulates oil pressure and gave up on doing it with pump in place.

    But think there is a pump inside the case also.

    Might be possible to have stuff loose inside the cases if you mess up.

    And if removing the engine cover have a new gasket at hand, it's paper and WILL rip.

    /Johan
    #17
  18. charlie264

    charlie264 Long timer

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    Basically, what oil filters are you using? K&N are far to restrictive. No its a high powered magnet in the oil filter cover so it traps bits of metal before they have chance to pass through the oil filter valve.
    #18
  19. nk14zp

    nk14zp Long timer

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    For oil to flush go to TSC and get Rotella t4 15-40 and some t6 to put in it when it's clear.
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  20. DirtyADV

    DirtyADV Long timer

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    Won't catch aluminum.

    EDIT: but screen in tank should protect the valve.

    /Johan
    #20