Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by FinTec, Dec 12, 2014.
OK so where do you plan to put the battery?
I believe he has already relocated the battery.
check page 10 there you can see the pictures
Hey Fin any progress with the project?
He's probably off designing a bitchin' Mars Lander. (this is not a question)
The intake tubes in the last picture are cut to a length that is longer then they will eventually be. My thought was I would keep them long now, build the new air box, then cut down to final length. So yes, I am building a totally new air box. We are not reusing the old one.
People buy motorcycle for different reasons and none of those reason are wrong. I happen to enjoy the "trip" one takes to heavily modify it to how I want it to be. But in BMW's defense, they have to make a bike for the masses and that has the widest appeal possible. They cannot afford to make a bad call, they have millions of tooling costs invested so they have to "play it safe". And that is what you get from the factory/dealer, a very well engineered, conservative, mass appeal, motorcycle.
I do feel your pain though Murphy76. These 800's are VERY well engineered and have HUGE amounts of potential. And with just a few changes, they really wake up. As you will see when done, this bike will ride extremely nice and blow your mind if you ever get a chance to try.
And yes, MTrider16, I am enjoying the hell out of this build! And I like your style.
No measurements yet on the difference with my intake. Hope to do this when complete. But to be honest, if fuel mileage is a concern, this is not the route to go. Or maybe I am wrong? I guess we'll find out.
Oh yea, thought of all the above you mention. If I where to get serious with the cams I would figure out the perfect cam profile then have a cam shop regrind the stock ones to fit that profile and then valve adjust to the new cams. But damn is it a science designing a cam. Lift, duration, over-lap, etc. you can get one huge head-ache trying to make it all work. I am sure the BMW guys went through dozens of cam profiles to nail it on this bike. But of course they went for max HP as that is what sells bikes...sigh....
And I mentioned before, I do wake up in the middle of the night screaming "STAND ALONE COMPUTER!". Boy, that would be a HUGE leap of faith and a major undertaking. But as time rolls on with this and I go deeper down the rabbit hole, yes, I am thinking more about this. Full control of fuel and ignition. Yum. Or how about multiple maps for different situations with a switch on the bars: map#1 - full performance - map#2 - low octane or bad gas - map#3 - fuel economy (just get me home dammit). This list of control goes on and on.
Yep, spent several hours just processing pictures to get ready for posting. Time for an update.
Pfftttt, mars lander? That is silly and un-realistic. Now a moon lander is far easier and I already have the basic design down on paper
Time to start the new air box. The stock air box is quite a nice piece of work in itself. Well though out, easy to get to air cleaner, and durable. I do think they took a hit with the very small tube opening to feed the intake box. I am guessing this was done for sound issues and keeps the intake noises down. My opinion on that is: boo. I am already in a wind tunnel sitting on a motor, while wearing a helmet, screw some intake noise. I bet we can increase the air intake capacity and as long as we forward face the intake tubes, we'll be fine.
So I contemplated solid modeling this. But once I designed to go sheet aluminum for the construction, I knew it would be very hard to maintain a design done on the computer. So I am going to go hybrid again and use the computer when needed but otherwise I'll be "sculpting" the air box as I go along. I do have a basic idea what I want and can see it in my head, but it would be silly to try and nail it on the computer to the nearest mm as something shaped so 3D like this will be evolving as it is made.
So like all good sheet metal projects, you better have a fresh stack of poster board
Take some basic measurements I started designing the base of the new air box. I actually used paper first to get a basic shape
and make sure I have openings and clearance for the new intake tubes
Then I made it out of poster board to get the final shape, both inside profile and outside
The poster board lets me transfer to a piece of aluminum
Actually, I just needed the basic shape so I could cut the blank. I end up machining the profile on the mill.
Holding down sheet metal can be tricky for machining. The best way I have found that is NOT for production level parts is double stick tape. Here you see I have put a bunch on the back of the sheet blank
I made an MDF wood base that is held with the vice on the mill
I still like to use clamps around the outside for a precaution
So here is comes, another "oh, crap" moment. So I decided to use 5052 grade aluminum in .080" thickness for the air box. This aluminum is excellent for bending, welding , and just general forming. You see a lot of guys use this for custom motorcycle gas tanks. But it is very difficult in one category, machining. I knew this going in but figured I would be the one guy in the world who figures out how to machine 5052. Conclusion: I am apparently NOT that guy. It is such a soft aluminum it just gums up the end mill and breaks them off. It is like machining a block of butter, a mess. Here is a shot of what the cut looks like
Sooooo, I back pedaled and went to a material I use a lot, 6061 but in .063" thickness. And sure enough it cuts like a champ
The only issue is I am going to have a difficult time forming/shaping/bending it as it has such high yield strength. But there is a solution to that I will show later.
So here is the base on the bike before I form it
I do need to give the piece a very mild curve to follow the curved profile of the frame here. I was able to do this by just bending the piece over a large tube I had as seen here
Now the base sits very flush with the frame. And we have the start of the air box.
Just like Rembrandt! Sweet custom build! Awesome engineering!
I assume you will end up using a Dynojet PCV with Autotune!
.... Someone called my name.....
Well, in theory, on paper where all other things are equal your improvements in torque, and how you got there should translate to an improvement in efficiency -- however, all things are not equal, torque vs RPM has changed, and what gear/RPM your traveling at is going to mitigate results. But it would be a boon to see fuel consumption go down as a function of a fixed dyno load/RPM.
Sweet ... subscribed. Took my time reading this (over 10 days) and looking at the pictures twice over. Respect. Carry on sir.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Exactly a year since you started. Any update?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Wow, it has been a year since I started this thread! I better get to work!
Now we need a "plate" for the intake tube rubber grommets. This was a tough one as it was VERY important to get them lined up perfect. The holes in the plate not only need to be concentric with the throttle body ports but at just the right height as well. So best to make a mach-up with some construction paper
As always this was about the 4 to 5th version I made from paper. But once you have it, you are done. Using the same techniques as before to cut sheet aluminum (double stick tape on back to piece of sacrificial wood) we cut at the plate with the bores.
Needed to add a bend to the plate as seen in the paper version. Someday I hope to have a proper sheet metal bender, but for now I use my hydraulic press with some tooling I made from scrap
So here is what we have so far
One issue came up, the intake grommets need a material that is about .120" thick. If you measure the material in the stock air box, it is about this thick as well. My sheet metal is only .063" thick so when you insert the grommets in, they kind of flop around and don't seal well. Not good. We cannot allow dirty air to get past these grommets. So what I did was cut two "rings" from the same sheet aluminum
so that I can include when I insert the grommets, like a spacer.
The grommets now take a little effort to pop in and the lips on the grommet seal tightly on each side of the plate.
Now tack the new plate in place
and in the above you can see where I also cut out some side pieces to fill in the ends of the plate. Those now tacked in as well
Fully weld all joints and test fit on the bike
And then, as I will do about a billion times before this is over, make sure the new intake tubes clear and fit into the new box as it is built.
I think I like the idea some-one had before. Just add two K and N filter pods on top of the intakes and call it good . I could probably hear the valves opening and closing with that set-up!
Now I need to start building the sides of the air box. I also wanted to make sure the sides of the air box came up at an angle or rather tapered inward as they went up. I wanted this so it would not be too boxy like. So I chose 10 degrees as the taper the sides would have as they went up. So seeing as I had chosen to have a bolt together look for the air box I needed to make a "lip" for the sides to bolt to. Here you can see I take poster board and lay it up against the lower pan, hold it at 10 degrees, then trace that line with a pencil.
Then cut that strip out of some sheet aluminum and tack weld onto the lower pan.
Things moving is always a concern when welding thin aluminum. So here I am checking that each side was at 10 degrees.
and a quick check on the bike
Now need lips on the front and back of the box. Same methods as the sides.
Shop envy as well.
Hapy new year! some more pics and info? :)
Now we need to start building up the sides of the air box. i start with the rear panel that goes up against the seat as it will be the most difficult to fit so might as well start there.
First get a basic idea of the piece I need
Now I need to do some hand forming of the piece as it needs to be curved to match the profile of the seat. Now I am still using 6061 aluminum here. So to bend it this much I need to anneal the aluminum or make it "soft". This is a very easy way to do it: take your oxy/acetylene torch and just run the acetylene so you get a very sooty flame. Then coat the piece in this soot
Now put your torch back to hot flame and start heating up the aluminum. The magic temperature that anneals the aluminum is also the temperature that burns off the soot. So slowly you see the soot disappear. STOP! Once all the soot is gone resist the urge to keep adding heat just "to be sure". You will soon hit the melt point of the aluminum and you will watch your piece vaporize. Ask me how I know!
So after I heated it up and removed the soot the piece looks like this
It is still black like but before i did this it looked like someone painted it black. So now you have a piece of aluminum you can band with very little effort.
So here is the start of the shape using the big pieces of pipe again
Then I made a "tab" piece I welded onto the bottom of the piece. This allows me to attach it to the lower pan eventually,
This next shape took a few hours of back and forth to the bike. Bend a little, check on bike, bend a little check on bike, etc. So many curves and bends to deal with and I really wanted a nice fit up against the seat.
I had then need to make some clearance cavities inside towards the seat to clear the intake tube. I used a wood ball I had and a make shift sand bag
Now I started on the front vertical panel. Pretty straight forward as it was relatively flat. As always, make from poster board first
Then make from aluminum
make it fit
Then check with intake tubes
Looks good! Now the rear piece is not totally done. I made it extra tall as I was not sure how much height I would need when done. However, now I need to cut a straight line on a multi curved piece. I started at this one for a while. Then I had an idea: freaking sea-bass with lasers on their heads! OK, no bass, but lasers for sure.
So using one of those cheapo level lasers I clamped it onto the front piece and projected a level line onto the rear piece. Perfectly flat and true.
Marked with a Sharpie
Cut on band saw and then sand down to get a nice clean edge
Then using the trace method again I made some side tabs for the rear piece
Weld them on, and check entire system to make sure all is good
Next the sides.
This has to be one of the most interesting threads I know nothing about, its just soothing to see all the work you have done to this bike. Keep it up!
I haven't seen you mention it...are you going to use the stock BMW plastics on top? (That might be a question but shouldn't count toward a new post).
Amazing work and can't wait to see the final bike project finished ~ keep up the brilliant work and the pictures coming please....