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Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by FinTec, Dec 12, 2014.
I am constantly amazed at the level of talent, on this forum!
Good stuff. I am subscribed only to keep Fin's head from swelling from all the kudos.
However he is skilled.
GraniteOne: you know my head can't possibly get any more swollen Go play with your mini-bike.....
So now just need to do some of the smaller ops on these clamps to wrap them up.
Just for review, here is MechanicO waiting for his new front legs
So now we load these tools
And start with the uppers by drilling/tapping/counter boring the clamp bolts holes. The machine can rigid tap (computer controlled tapping) but for one-offs, I will always go manual. The best tool to use for this is a tap aligner you see I have in the spindle. You can use these on a drill press or mill as well. It is just a spring loaded plunger with point that keeps the tap vertical and concentric. Taps breaking, taped holes that are not straight, and other tapping issues can be solves with this inexpensive tool.
Now the slitting of the clamps so they are, well, a clamp. I use a slitting saw for this. It always scare the hell out of me as it is large and thin. You REALLY have to walk it is slow and take small cuts each pass. You cannot rush this tool.
I also had to drill/tap and slit the area for the steer tube so it can clamp to that. Same type of operation. Had to use the tap extension to clear the clamp itself.
The lower clamp was pretty much the same but this op was where I had to drill/tap the steering stoppers
OK, now throw those parts in the tumbler and we go make a steering tube.
Did a little research on Steer Tube material and decided to go with 4130 chromoly steel. I thought about going aluminum, as I had seen some aluminum steer tubes in the past, but never on a bigger heavier bike like this. The stock one was steel so I am staying online with that. I do want to save weight on this build, but there are just certain areas I cannot take a risk. And the front end is one of those areas.
So this is a copy of my working drawing for the part
Pretty much the same as stock except I am using a larger threaded hole for the top tension screw so I can use an aluminum one I will make next.
Here is what it will look like assembled with the triple clamps we just made
Here is the machine you will see used for most the lathe work here. A JET lathe I bought at an auction. In good shape but I added the digital read-out (DRO) as I have machined before just using the dials. Once you go DRO you never want to go back to dials.
First op is to open up the hole and tap it
The pull out the piece and I started with one of the bearing ends which you can see I am checking here. You have to remember that the bottom bearing is an interference fit (presses on) the top bearing is a "slip" fit. Otherwise it would be very hard to assemble and disassemble the front end. The slip fit is the trickiest as we are talking about half a thou (.0005") under the ID of the bearing. Go to big and the headset might "jiggle".
Now start the profile work and end with the lower bearing area
90% of the work done in one op and ready to pick it off
Here is the whole gang now ready to go.
I did press the steer tube into the lower triple clamp and do a mach install, but forget to take pictures of that. However, still plenty to do: tension screw for top clamp, mount for Scott damper, and then go upward into the bar risers and clamp.
Favor to ask if anyone is able to help. Understood this is a big favor to ask.
We are going to try and take the bike down to Denver and get a few base dyno pulls on her to set the base line for its output. We plan to do a few things to improve the bikes already excellent performance (i.e. new custom air box, exhaust, etc) and it just does not make sense to do all that without a base line.
When we do these pulls on the dyno it would be great to also be using a GS911 to log a lot more of the motors data . So I am asking if anyone is willing to lend/rent me their GS911 for just one day for this dyno run? I pay shipping there and back and if you need something else in return, let me know.
And of course I would completely share ALL data from the dyno run with the GS911 data here on ADV as well.
Can anyone help? PM me please if you can.
So, how much time do you have in building the triples? Would it be worth producing lots of twenty or so for us who are interested in upgrading our bikes with the 4860's?
Did you see Earling's thread on the dyno runs with aftermarket exhaust and PC5 with Autotune?
Here, I'll link it for you.
Dynojet PC-5 with Autotune and Full Exhaust
GS-911...Where did you get yours?
F8GS Fuel Injection Battle Stations AF-XIED vs Dynojet's PC-5
I have had a few others PM me and ask this as well. As you alluded to, the only way it works is at a certain volume. 20 of these would make it worth while. Bu the per piece cost would be still high. I don't have the time right now but in the spring I might. Ask me again then and we can go from there.
MTrider16: ah, yes, those are some of my favor posts Some really good information in those. I do wish people would post more of these dyno runs before and after. Just gives such a better perspective of ones efforts.
Has anyone ever done an 800 with an aftermarket full standalone ECU? Always wondered if that has been done and what the gains where. And are there any gains?
And still need a GS911 is there is anyone who can help? Would really like to dyno next week and would be a shame to not have this data from the GS911 for that.
Fin, would you be willing to part with the files? I have a few local shops I send files out to for my own builds.
PMed you Motomochila.
I think by the time I get mine to you from British Columbia you'd be finished already. If it goes another day or two and you still don't have any other options send me a PM...
I haven't seen any other dyno runs. It is something I'm always interested so I usually peek in a thread and see how things are going, but i could have missed some.
Need to make a new tension bolt for the steer tube. The stock one will not work as I used a slightly larger ID tube for the steer tube and had to go with a larger thread size. Besides, I wanted to keep the look for the front end and the stock one did not do it for me.
So we start with a piece of round aluminum in the lathe
Now we have the basic profile of the part
Threaded and now ready to be picked-off
Took a piece of scrap steel tube, threaded the ID so that it could now hold the new bolt in the vice of the mill
This was a bit tricky to put a M10 hex socket in the head of the bolt. First drilled it out to be slightly under the minor diameter of the hex socket. Then used a very small drill and drilled out the corners. So now there is not a lot of material left to create the hex. So I used a hex broaching tool I had (for 5mm sockets), did NOT turn on the spindle, indicated the position of the broach as best I could, then using the manual feed dropped the broach into the bore for each corner. You can just see where I "scraped" some material form inside the bore. Worked great and took a M10 hex key just fine.
Then to give it a look I wanted I made some cosmetic passes with a ball EM. Hey, I figure it is now 8 grams lighter as well!
Now just a shot of my new bolt vs the stock one. One thing I forgot to do was take a shot of a Delrin washer I also made to go under the new bolt. This will keep the aluminum on aluminum surfaces from galling when I tension down the bolt onto the top triples.
Next up is the adapter/mount for the Scott damper.
You do very nice work with great attention to detail! Thanks for sharing the process.
awesome engineering skills
Thank you for the compliments. I just want share what I am doing on this build as I learned so much from this site myself.
I don't know if people want to see this level of detail though on the parts I am making? We have quite a lot of parts to go and I may pull back on the pics if they seem to turn into the same.
I am still looking for a loaner GS911? Might just have to go ahead and do the dyno run without it. It would be a shame as I think I could collect a lot of data to tell us more about these bikes.
if you ever decide to make another set of triple clamps id have em
FWIW, the pics make the report. Thanks for sharing.
Now we are going to make the adapter for the Scott Damper onto the upper triple.
Just my opinion: not a fan of the systems that mount the damper on the risers. This means the damper is now being operated AFTER the rubber isolators under the risers. To me this would make the damper "less" active as it has to wait for the rubber isolator to load-up then it moves. To me, not optimum.
So of course, we need to model it. So here is what I came up with
The three counter bores match up with the three holes in the upper triple. And the top two threaded holes receive the Scott damper. All using M6 hardware.
First thing we need is a blank. So I took some 3" round aluminum, drilled a big hole in the center and then picked it off to just over my finish height
Then to the mill where I drilled and counter bored the mount holes and the upper mount holes. Doing all these at once ensures it will be concentric when mounted on the triples. And that is important with a radial type damper
Now, you'll see me do this a lot, with those original mount holes done, I can now use those to hold the part down on to a piece of sacrificial aluminum.
Then I can do the final cutting like this. Like the tension bolt, at the last minute I added some cosmetic cuts with a ball EM to give it that "Over Machined" look. And again, lighter!