An 800's Rebirth/The build of MechanicO

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by FinTec, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. AK650

    AK650 Long timer Supporter

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    Beautiful work Fin, look forward to seeing more!

    Jeff
  2. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

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    Yeah Fin, I like your concept with 8 psi boost. 100 HP is perfect for that platform. Maybe one day we can get to do a joint venture and build 2 of these beasts! As far as the tranny goes I am sure we can reduce some impact with a cush off road rear wheel hub. Also The Husky TE610/630 motor has a tractor of a transmission that could easily handle the higher output. Definitely would like to discuss over some brews one day!
    Keep us going with your detailed build thread. Way better than 99% of the threads on this site!
  3. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

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  4. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    I for one would love to be a fly on the..... ehhhhh squirrel in the tree, watching your first ride. This is really cool.:freaky:clap
  5. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    That thread is interesting to me to estimate how much work is needed to install a supercharger.

    Secondly, I was wondering if the manufacture of the supercharger would have one more appropriately sized for your KTM. (the guy that assembled the kit, used an off the shelf supercharger)

    Anyway, good luck, and I'll quit dumping on Finn's build thread.
  6. 97707

    97707 Vulture capitalist

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    You have to wonder, adding something like this to a bike, how much is it a gimmicky showpiece and how much is it any kind of practical?

    [​IMG]

    It looks pretty fragile. Not something you'd want on a good using type of ADV bike.

    And they have drilled thru the case covers for a power takeoff. You could think of a few downsides from that.

    Does a blower really need that much power? How about a 12 volt motor? Or a couple of them. Couldn't you get enough psi out of that?

    Plus if you added just 20%, is an F8 motor robust enough to make that much more power and hold together?

    .
  7. FinTec

    FinTec Been here awhile

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    Time to get this radiator wrapped up. Need to machine one more piece then all this can go off the the radiator builder. That Thermostat Housing I made needs to securely bolt to the right tank on the radiator. It needs to be bolt on so I can get to the thermostat and service it as needed. It also needs to be robust enough to keep a flat surface to the housing does not leak.

    I need it to be as low profile as possible as I am really shoe-horning this thing into the space we have. But also need thickness to give a good thread engagement for the mounting holes. So I can up with a design that has a this mount plate bu there are bosses on the back side that extend into the tank. They are also "blind" holes so sealing is not an issue.

    Start with a chuck of aluminum

    [​IMG]

    Mill out the main bore and the (4) M6 threaded holes for the housing mount

    [​IMG]

    Now flip over and machine the backside where we have the 4 bosses that encase those 4 thread holes. Part done. Now all the radiator guy has to do is weld this into the right tank and I am good to go.

    [​IMG]

    So now I take all these parts I made, box them up with the drawings of the radiator they are to make (earlier post), and send to the radiator guy. This is what they got.

    [​IMG]

    * image, if you will, weeks have gone by. I wait patiently. The the brown truck arrives and you see this beauty

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Came out fantastic. They really did a great job. I love to see the aluminum welds from an artist that know what they are doing. Exactly as I had drawn for them.

    Here it is compared to the stock radiator. As you can see it is narrower but a little taller.

    [​IMG]

    Here you can see I mounted the fan and also with the bypass hose attached to the brass fittings

    [​IMG]

    Made a radiator guard from some nice aluminum perforated sheet. I felt one was not enough so I put two on top of each other and staggered the openings so they where smaller

    [​IMG]

    Used some aluminized tape along the edge edges to keep as one piece and not have sharp edges.

    [​IMG]

    The way I designed the tanks and core top and bottom they have a gap so this guard just slips in one way very easy, but you have to flex it slightly outward to remove. So no need for any fasteners. Stays in place. And cost like $2.00.

    [​IMG]

    Last this was to splice in the stock fan plug and mount on the bottom of the radiator.

    [​IMG]

    Very happy with this and it just looks cool and aluminum-esque. A look I like. So now we need to mount the thing in the front of MechanicO and plumb it into the motor.
  8. FinTec

    FinTec Been here awhile

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    Forgot this step. When ever you weld something it can warp, bend, and generally not keep it's shape. I predicted there might be an issue with the mount plate I made for the thermo housing warping during welding. This could affect the seal of the housing onto the plate.

    Sure enough when I put it on the manual mill and dragged an indicator across it it was about 5 thou out of flat. The O-ring I am using for the seal is pretty darn thick and it may just do fine and seal that difference. But the thought of it being non-flat would make me wake up in the middle of the night, screaming about an un-flat world :eek1 So I leveled the radiator on the mill and clamped it down. This was harder than I thought as a radiator by default is not really that stout and tends to be thin and flimsy. So it was like clamping down a Coke can. If you went to tight, it would just start to buckle. Good thing is I was only really going to take off .005" of material so cutting forces are low. But still interesting to see if my new radiator goes flinging across the room once the mill hits it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So after machining off the material I dragged the indicator across again: dead flat baby! The world is good and proper again. I will sleep well tonight :wink:

    [​IMG]
  9. FinTec

    FinTec Been here awhile

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    Small bit of good news: temporarily wired up the larger radiator fan to the stock harness and cycled it using the GS911 test mode. Worked great and the CANBus could drive it no problem. The GS911 stops and starts the fan until you stop it so I let it sit for 10 minutes turning on and off every few seconds. No issues. What little I know about electronics and electric motors starting them is where you see the largest pull, so the cycling was a good test.

    As a side test (and a little concerned to try this) I stalled the fan and held it in place while it tried to cycle. Sure enough the CANbus killed the current to the fan. I had to turn the key off and on (reset) and then I tested again for another 10 minutes. So confidence is high we are good here with a much larger radiator fan.

    Side request: does anyone have an old, non-usable Reg/Rectifier unit I can buy from them? I really just want the stator side plug as I just bought the aftermarket "series" RR from Jack. Understood I can hardwire it or even put on another plug type, but my goal is to keep the stock plug so if I am on the road and need a new RR or stator I can though it in and roll again. I'll pay shipping. Thank you if you can help.
  10. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    So.....after modifying the crap out of it, you want to keep a plug stock? :D

    Sorry I don't have one. Keep in mind that the 650 single uses the same RR, stator and electrical plugs in case you find one of those.
  11. sarathmenon

    sarathmenon Armchair Adventurer

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    A couple of weeks before, I gutted the stock RR plugs to use with a series RR. With that fresh on my mind, I'll say that the plugs are overrated. I kept mine in case I run into warranty work, but you don't have that problem. The plugs are BMW internal and definitely not something you can pick up in any store. In case your RR dies, and you want to get a replacement, you will have better luck sourcing Furukawa or metripak connectors. Not to mention, these have better weather sealing.
  12. sarathmenon

    sarathmenon Armchair Adventurer

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    Also, I digged up my notes from the conversion. Older BMW cars used these plugs in other places. If you are really insistent on using them, and no inmate steps up to hand you one, these are the plugs you need to source:

    1) AMP 1-828817-1, BMW 6113 1378114 for the 3 pin alternator connector. Found in BMW E38 seat memory harness
    2) RR connector part #s: 1 04 00 46475 2 C, 09 330403. Closest match is E46 E46 downstream lamba sensor connector.
  13. FinTec

    FinTec Been here awhile

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    Ha, OK, I deserve some ribbing with this. After thinking it over I'll just go with the "Weather-Pak" connectors I use on other projects. They are nuke proof and work great. If I need to put on a stock RR or stator, cut some wire, twist'm, and get home. Works for me!
  14. FinTec

    FinTec Been here awhile

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    OK, need some serious horse power on the help here. As I had mentioned before on the brake work, I have disabled the ABS. However, on a 2013 when you unplug the ABS unit the brake lights come on. I am guessing this is some safety feature so if there is an issue with the ABS you get a brake light. Have no idea really, but the brake light comes on when you unplug it.

    So my limited knowledge of CANbus tells me there is a termination resistor that gets "cut" when you unplug the ABS and the ECU then turns on the brake light. So just need to find that wire set that needs to see 120ohm resistance, wiring in a resistor, tape it up and good to go.

    Well, no such luck so far. I spent a good 2 hours testing, measuring, pairing, every wire on the ABS harness to the ABS unit and did not have much luck.

    [​IMG]

    So here are the set of wires going to the ABS:

    Two Power wires (red)
    Two ground wires (brown)
    Three single wires
    Three sets of twisted pair

    [​IMG]

    The power and ground are obvious. And I am guessing the twisted pairs are for driving/cycling the ABS pump for the rear or front brake. But that would only be two of the twisted pair? The single wires I have no idea.

    So after a LOT of attempts I came up with this as the only 4 wires needed to turn the brake light off:

    [​IMG]

    If you remove any of these 4 wires the brake light come back on all the time. So I figured I just needed to measure these and see if I can see the stock 120ohm signal. Only set that showed this value was the twisted white pair.

    Any ideas here on what to try next?

    And yep, I did think of just making the brake light system it's own circuit and wiring it from scratch. But the computer controls the rear led lights and changes the voltage to give you riding and brake from the same set. Pain in the arse to redo all that. And I know I am so close to making this work.
  15. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    The brake light comes on when the ABS unit detects pressure buildup...........

    Default for safety is "light on".
  16. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Parts fiche shows a rear brake light switch but no front. ABS unit has an integral pressure switch that speaks Canbus.

    No advice to give. :D
  17. dpm

    dpm Been here awhile

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    there's a microswitch in the front master cyl, looks not unlike the clutch switch.

    Bosch ABS has all the logic inside the ABS unit. Your twisted pairs are front and rear sensors, plus CAN-BUS.

    No clue what the other three wires are, but surely they're listed in the Haynes manual? Anyone?

    But as we know the stoplight defaults to "on" I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you need to connect the green wire to ground.
  18. FinTec

    FinTec Been here awhile

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    There is a big difference starting in 2013 models. No more front brake switch. A Reaver pointed out, the ABS detects pressure and then sends signal to activate brake light. Weird though that they would still have switch for rear?

    And good to know all the logic is done in the ABS unit dpm. Thank you.

    Unfortunately the wiring diagram has no wiring at all for the ABS. Zipo. And the Hayes diagram only goes to 2012. I contacted them and they have no immediate plans to update the manual for 2013+ right now. Not enough changes to justify.

    Now I have heard that a BMW tech does have access to the FULL wiring diagram, but have had no luck chasing that down. Does anyone have the full tech level wiring diagram for 2013+ model? There has to be something a tech can reference on these bikes for this.

    The logic in the ECU does not seem to care that the ABS has no pressure but it does care when you unplug it. And since I have cut all power feed to the ABS I believe it is still some sort of termination resistance it needs to see as CANbus tends to like. 120 ohm is the industry standard here.

    I'll try a few more combinations on the wiring and see what else I can get concluded. But if we figure this out, deleting ABS on a 2013+ bike will be doable without having the unit still plugged in and zip-tie to the frame :eek1
  19. omekim

    omekim Adventurer

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    I don't know much about the comms/CAN-bus setup on the F800, but from what I understand there are only a few things on the actual CAN-bus/network: the underseat controller, the dash, the alarm/tpm and (?) the ABS (?). Everything else is just wiring to sensors or actuators.

    From working with CAN before in other applications, I would guess if there is comms to the ABS unit (ie its part of the network/CANbus), then the main control unit is likely looking for messages from it. If it was a termination resistor issue then electrical properties of the whole network would be buggered, and I'd think you'd have all kinds of errors, not just one. (I'm assuming here that there is one network, not a separate one for just the abs unit...)

    Either way, I'm not convinced that your problem is electrical (a termination resister), instead, I would think its logical (the main controller doesn't hear any messages from the ABS unit)

    To all readers (Pet Peeve Warning!): Remember that the way most of us use the word "CANbus" is totally wrong.... When I say CANbus above, I mean just the physical network between controllers.
  20. 97707

    97707 Vulture capitalist

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    Maybe this is more complicated than it seems, but . . .

    Could you take the wires and cut them where they leave the ABS unit and re route them to resemble the wiring on any usual non overcomputerized normal motorcycle.

    Like this: power source to switch to brake light to ground. Use a switch attached to the brake lever, or a pressure activated one, either aftermarket or borrowed from another bike.

    How important is it for the front brake to activate the brake light? Most every older bike, it is activated by the rear brake only.


    I'm wondering about another issue with taking the ABS out of the loop: That is proper and equalized hydraulic pressure to the calipers. As I get it, somehow with the ABS pressure from the front brake lever and the rear brake lever are mixed and modified by the ABS.

    Now you have eliminated the ABS unit, you have separated the two and need to supply the right amount of pressure to the calipers with good control. I wonder how hard that is gonna turn out to be, and what kind of testing will assure you it is safe at any speed.

    .