Andreani Cartridges Facts, Reviews, Install, and Comparison

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by cgguy09, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    (Updated 29Jan19 when highlighted with **)
    Ciao fratelli,

    There are a couple threads about Andreani Andreani Cartridges in the F800GS/A line. This thread is designed to provide basic facts, clear up misconceptions and provide an opportunity for inmates to write reviews.

    Further, I'll post links to other install/technique reviews by other inmates.

    Facts
    Overview: Andreani has made "Misano" Cartridges since roughly 2016. In addition to the F800GS series, the "Misano" line is in several other bikes, including Ducati, Yammy, MV Agusta, and Honda. The Africa Twin is the most notable model that shares similar intended uses as the F800GS model.

    I spoke with Diego Arduini, the International Sales Manager for Andreani, and I received the following information about the Cartridges.

    Misano Cartridges, also known as Model "105" are available for a number of bikes. Pertinent to us, the F800GS and the Honda Africa Twin CRF1000L. They were last modified at the end of 2016 for the 2017 models. However, there is no distinction in the model numbers.


    Models: Andreani makes four cartridges for the F800gs depending on the year (2008-2012 , 2013-2018) and intended (Street, & Off road). The Offroad models were created in 2017. Although the the WP/Marzocchi models are split, the cartridges are the same the difference is the caps. @2Stamp received the the W05 instead of the W04, and Andreani was able to merely swap the caps.
    • Model number 105/W04 (08-12) Street oriented (1.5 less travel)
    • Model number 105/W05 (13-18) Street oriented (1.5 less travel)
    • Model number 105/W17 (08-12) Off-road oriented (same travel as stock
    • Model number 105/W18 (13-18) Off-road oriented (same travel as stock)
    Adjustments: The Misano Cartridges offers preload, Rebound, and Compression adjustability.

    Seat height: It should remain the same. One inmate @Paudux noted it raised the bike slightly.

    Springs: The Misano Cartridges offer standard spring weights, based on the riders weight. They do not differentiate weights between GS & GSA models. So I recommend adding an additional 10 lbs for the GSA weight.

    **Spring Rate: The Andreani Group appears to be Hush-Hush about what spring rate they assign to rider weight. I have contacted about three US distributors and the Adreani Group itself and none of them have not provided the information. That said, they print the spring rate on the spring in N/nm. I finally got an email from Andreani stating that if I felt it was under-sprung that they would send different springs. But they were certain I would be happy with the setup. I'll note that touratech is also opaque about their spring rate. I have a Touratech rear shock and I called to ask what it was & they didn't disclose it either.

    **Ordering: It appears whether your order from a US distributor, eBay, International, or andreani itself, Andreani will assemble the package and ship it. Little to no work is done by distributors, unless they install it to. When you order through a third party, they take 2 pieces of information: Your rider weight & your riding style. They provide this to the Andreani Group who will send the 105 Misanos and springs concomitant to your weight.



    Take care & ride safe!

    -cFogs

    updated 29 Jan 19
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  2. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Updated 27 Jan 19

    Reviews I:
    The reviews on these cartridges generally concern the Street W04/W05 models. That said, the reviews are generally positive and endorse the cartridges capabilities in off-road situations.
    The following members installed them between 2014 and today and have given them good reviews.

    @BygDaddee did a very good write up in this thread and provided outstanding pictures.
    @roespan installed them and stated they feel plush over potholes
    @mikej55 Gave a good review:
    @DanyalDenyo noted even with the street version, he didn't notice reduction in travel:
    @Paudux had a less than ideal experience with his Andreani. Of note, he raised concerns about the "silly little o rings" Andreani uses as bumpers at the bottom of travel. I believe he even returned them.
    I invite other people to provide their input, reviews, and experiences on this suspension upgrade. Particularly, anyone who has used the 105/W17 *105/W18 versions of the bike. What you liked? What you did not like? How it compares to other fork suspension options.


    Take care & ride safe!

    -cFogs
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  3. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Reviews II: (updated 29Jan19)
    Vendor Reviews
    • Konflict Suspension (the suspension shop in Washington that has worked with Touratech to develop their suspension... and is well regarded as one of the better suspension shops in the county) I spoke with the shop and they provided this insight
      • They are good units. Vastly superior to BMW stock forks and will solve most of the problems on the Honda Twin.
      • They’ll improve the off-road handling performance of most bikes.
      • They are re-buildable.
      • They are equivalent to the performance you would expect from a fully adjustable WP fork.
      • But to be clear, they aren’t the best- they aren’t Ohlins or Touratech. You shouldn’t plan on racing in the Dakar or doing a motor cross series. At least not
    • This is a pretty good endorsement from a tough crowd. Now, I’ll also note he said “I would never put these in my bike” noting that Ohlins is worth every penny. He also said, unless your a professional racer, you’ll never ride beyond the performance capability of Ohlins. The same cannot be said for other units.

    • ***Motowheels in Southern California. I was admittedly unfamiliar with the shop but they do all sorts of race & street suspension and are distributors for Ohlins amongst other suspension companies. They provided this insight
      • For 90% of riders this is the best suspension offered. Most riders do not need Ohlins or touratech. To be clear, he said that Ohlins and TT were better products.
      • Considering these costs between $650-$750 USD, they are underpriced. It is better than several other higher priced brands.
      • The lead suspension expert said he had four motorcycles and Andreani forks were on three of them. He uses Ohlins on his track bike.
      • He had never seen an issue with these forks bottoming over.
      • Andreani Group offers very good customer support. He said he communicates with them 4-10 times a week.
      • He has not ridden the 105 Misanos off-road and most of his customers are street riders. However, the few customers who have installed these on ATs & F800gs have reported good results.
    • (For disclosure purposes, I'll likely be buying my fork cartridges from Moto Wheels)
    Inmate Reviews
    I also received this review from @roespan:

    I used the bike for a couple BDRS after the suspension upgrade - IDBDR and WABDR. The bike worked great. I thought it was a huge improvement over stock. Adjustability was sweet too, on the fly. No complaints.

    And this Africa Twin review from @roktbox:
    All good. Initial install coupled with a spacer in the rear + added preload stiffened everything up quite a bit. Put 4500 miles on before I needed to deal with stiction created by the ID wear on the tube due to the bushing and anodizing. (EDITORS NOTE: this is a common AT problem not associated with the cartridge) Most of my riding is offroad. I think I have about 8k (?) on the clock now, so I'm not putting a ton of miles on it considering it was new in June of '16. No complaints, but will explore other options to resolve the fork wear issue. Honestly, I don't really know what I don't know. Woods bikes, track bikes, road bikes, and the AT all get suspension service and / or setup feedback from my local shop that primarily supports road racing. So, we fiddle. Street and track setups often reveal how effective they are in tire wear. I can get my KTech and Ohlins stuff dialed in tight enough to eliminate almost all of the wear usually associated with rebound speeds in the rear. Dirty bikes are harder to suss out for me and I'm too lazy and impatient to go ride the same section of trail over and over again to "feel", fiddle with knobs, try again, repeat, etc. For all I know, I'm bashing through stuff and have 50% improvement to achieve. Have swapped with 1190, 1090R, others and feel like it's on par. It can be stiff and I have to watch the front rim to avoid pinches in terrain that hides hard edges and steps. When I try to push it like a lighter enduro I usually end up paying for it.

    @2Stamp provide this informaiton
    Picked up the 105/W04 model up in 2017, seems the model I put in shortened the suspension travel by an inch. (Which wasn't an issue for him, he is a bit smaller than most riders (5'8" , 160 with no gear). They worked really well for him on his Alaska trip last summer. I did notice a difference in steering, for the positive. But I can't really explain it.
    When in Alaska, most of the roads were paved. I say that loosely. Canadian roads are rough and frost heaves in Alaska and cCanad make for really rough "paved" roads. Unpaved roads; I road part of the Dalton Hwy, the Top of the World Hwy, and a couple smaller dirt roads. The Dalton was the roughest. In fact I bent my front rim on that section, hit either a pot hole or there were a few bigger rocks. Still functions well, just needs fixing. I didn't hit any baby head type rocks.

    I can't remember if I put the new cartridges on prior to, or after, my trip over Ophir Pass in Colorado. That was a rough trail. Well worth the ride. I believe the F800GS is a capable bike. I am smaller than a lot of 800 riders, so I've been able to get away with more on the stock suspension.

    When I changed the front, I also changed the rear. This, I think, helped the most. But I do really like the option of adjustable fronts now.



    -cFogs
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  4. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Fitment Update:

    These Cartridges fit the F800GS Adventure

    Howdy team, during my correspondence with technical personnel at Andreani, and they raised concerns about the F800GS Adventure. They were confused about differences between the GSA and the GS forks (specifically the travel length of the front fork).

    To be clear, the GS & GSA share the same fork components. All specs (both BMW and independent sources) state that both share 230 mm of travel. Further, the part fiches all show the same part numbers for the front end.

    Thus, these forks will fit both the GS & GSA equally. However, I would add some additional weight (maybe 5-10 lbs) when you order yours springs.

    -cFogs

    (I hope someone other than me is reading this)
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  5. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    Is that to say that they will still fit the GSA?
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  6. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Questions:

    One concern that @Paudux raised was the small bumpers in the cartridges. Is it possible to change these? Are most bumpers the same size?

    Being that we'll be taking these bikes off road, the potential for bottoming out, while not likely, is higher than street bikes. Thus, any protection we can afford the internals of the bike would be time & effort well spent.

    I'll likely post this elsewhere, and I intend to ask my suspension shop but if anyone can weigh in, please do!

    -cFogs
    #6
  7. Deathsoswiftly

    Deathsoswiftly Been here awhile

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    How does the andreani kit compare to k-tech?
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  8. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Manuals:
    I tried to find more information on the k-tech, but there weren’t many reviews.

    Notably, k-tech didn’t upgrade the cartridges for the WP forks. So they only work on <2013 models
    #8
  9. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    I wanted to document this instead of having 2 dozen people trying to look it up...Below are picture of the part fiche between the F800GS & F800GSA for '13-'15. All the parts are the same in the forks. Please note that the ADV version offered a lower version, and some of the numbers appear as options.

    suspension 1.JPG suspension 2.JPG suspension 3.JPG
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  10. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Spring Rate Location:
    I'll move this around in the thread to a location that makes more sense in a bit. But, in the mean time, the spring rate for Andreani Springs is located on the spring itself in N/mm.

    spring rate.jpg

    I stole this picture from @YIDDISH COWBOY who put a pair on his Tiger EX. He was given these springs, which was, in my mildly educated opinion, under sprung for his weight.

    @Sjones423 please let us know what your spring rate is when you receive your goods!!

    Spring Rate experience:
    Andreani Seems to provide weaker spring rates than suggested by common calculation. I've gathered this through pouring through other threads for other makes and model. Apparently, people working through Omni Racing (an Italian seller) have had success to asking for a specific spring rate.

    I used racetechs website to determine my spring rate should be roughly .90 kg/mm (9 N/nm)

    spring rate.JPG
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  11. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    The suspension specialist at MotoWheels said the Andreani Cartridges were better than K-tech.

    He wasn’t sure about the preload range (that is to say who has more preload ability... but if your forks are sprung properly, that shouldn’t matter)

    But he said both the rebound and compression dampening was more natural and plush on the Andreani.

    It’s the only comparison I’ve seen.

    Unfortunately, but for logical reason, comparisons between fork brands doesn’t exist... what rider has the time, technical proficiency, and MONEY to compare the 5 or 6 brands of cartridges?

    So, what I’m gathering from the suspension folks, those who sell and install all the brands, is this: (1) Ohlins and Touratech are undisputedly the best. (2) Andreani Cartridges will be solid,reliable, effective cartridges that will allow a rider to complete challenging rides whether it’s BCDRs, TAT, TCAT, etc... (3) these cartridges punch above their weight for ability and money..(4) according to motowheels, Andreani Cartridges are superior to k-tech

    Much of this open to interpretation... so weigh in if you thinking I’m outside the buoys!
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  12. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    Speaking with a local Ohlins service centre, they told me that Andreani cartridges are very good and fill a gap in the market between top end Ohlins/Touratech and some of the lesser known brands. I’ve still not had a dispatch notice from Omnia Racing so not sure how long until they arrive, though i’ll keep you posted.
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  13. todd900ss

    todd900ss Been here awhile

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    @cgguy09
    Thanks for taking the time to put this together!
    Didn’t know that there are street and off road models available.
    So I assume the above suspension tuners you listed will service the Andreani cartridges?

    Been looking for a upgrade to the front without spending $1000 +.
    Replaced the rear with a TFX shock a while back on my 09, this in its self made a huge difference. I’m not expecting the same from the front.....but who knows
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  14. todd900ss

    todd900ss Been here awhile

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    I’ve had no personal experience but it has been documented many times that Racetech is on the higher side with their spring rate recommendations.
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  15. todd900ss

    todd900ss Been here awhile

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    Have a friend that is a K-tech dealer, read I can get a good deal. The last I checked they only come with one spring rate. If I’m remembering correctly any other spring is a additional cost.
    BTW he has never sold a set. He mostly deals in race set-up and and restoration, so not a suspension shop.
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  16. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Yep, all dealers/vendors I’ve listed can assist.

    The price seems to vary a bit. Hard racing is the most expensive... MotoWheels is the least expensive.

    I’ll also note. That The rep at MotoWheels, Stephano, seems to be the most knowledgeable and helpful. Even though he was in California, he made it clear if there was an issue (e.g spring rate) he would fix it.

    I’ll note that most of the state side vendors did not know about the off-road models. Again, MotoWheels is the only state side vendor that has the off-road model listed on their website. But all of them can get them.

    Now, I’ve said a lot of good stuff about MoroWheels... but really all the cartridges for our bike are assembled and prepared in Italy at Andreani Group’s plant. Thus, state side vendors are third parties to pass them through. You do get the “extra insurance” that they’ll inspect the cartridges prior to passing them along, and you’ll have a state side POC should problems arise.
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  17. YIDDISH COWBOY

    YIDDISH COWBOY Stuntman

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    They are grossly undersprung. I battled with andreani and omnia the supplier but to no avail. I finally gave up and ordered a 1kg set from Racetech. I'll install them this week.
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  18. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Sorry to hear that, but appreciate the fees back.

    We’d love to hear your results after you install the springs!
    #18
  19. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    The rider sag on the cartridges Omnia supplied when I quoted rider/gear weight was pot on.
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  20. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    I don't see how you can use the racetech site to determine spring rates for andreani cartridges.
    The racetech site will be using springs that go on standard cartridges to determine it.

    The Andreani cartridges have a very different size (dia and length) than the standard cartridges, this changes required spring rates significantly.

    You can even see by the oil height the racetech site says, the oil height for the Andreanis is significantly higher.

    The Ohlins spring are different again, and different rates, but a little closer to stock size than Andreani.


    #20
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