Andreani Cartridges Facts, Reviews, Install, and Comparison

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by cgguy09, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Oh man...so I am at the limit of my knowledge with this. But, from what was communicated to me by other suspension folks is that the spring weight should roughly be the same regardless of what cartridge is in there.

    The oil primarily impacts the rebound/compression damping, and only serves to cool the springs.
    The cartridges, only control the resistance the bike experiences on compression and rebound.
    The cartridges that can fit in these fork tubes vary very little.
    The springs are what "hold's up the bike"
    Thus, while springs may slightly differ in diameter & number of coils, their ultimate spring weight will roughly be the same.

    Someone way in if I'm wrong...because I'm at the end of my knowledge with this statement.
    #21
  2. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    The oil primarily impacts the rebound/compression damping, and only serves to cool the springs. yeah not sure about the only cool bit
    The cartridges, only control the resistance the bike experiences on compression and rebound. not how Id explain it but...
    The cartridges that can fit in these fork tubes vary very little. wrong, The Andreani have a significantly different spring size to Ohlins or stock, even the rod and body is very different.
    The springs are what "hold's up the bike" yep
    Thus, while springs may slightly differ in diameter & number of coils, their ultimate spring weight will roughly be the same. very wrong

    #22
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  3. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    I stand corrected!! :hung:2cry:baldy:cob

    So, what do you think? Should we just trust Andreani when setting up the bike?
    #23
  4. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    Yes,

    sorry, not trying to ruin the party :-)
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  5. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    Andreani
    Nextgpaul_Snapbucket_Fork_5935E8F9-93F0-47F8-A944-7A59D84665B9_zps070zzfhc.jpg
    pic3.jpg




    Ohlins
    pic2.jpg
    PIC Ohlin.jpeg
    #25
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  6. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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  7. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    I received mine in the post today. It doesn’t actually say on the springs what the rating is, though the sticker from Omnia on the side of the box listed the spring as 90-100kg as per my request (I weigh around 90).
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  8. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Awesome! That was super quick! I guess stuff flows across the EU pretty quickly though.

    I *and I'm sure others* would love to see some pictures.

    I'm surprised they didn't post the spring rate on the springs. Let us know how they feel!
    #28
  9. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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  10. raduklr

    raduklr Adventurer

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    I just received my Andreani offroad kit, this is the newer 105/W17 for the Marzocchi forks on the F800GS 2008 model.
    Now, it looks nothing like the road kit, I'm even wondering if this is the right one or if it's incomplete. But what do I know , this is the first time i'm assembling a fork...

    First the aluminum tube moves freely, just rattles there, and doesn't go all the way down


    20190212_223142.jpg


    Bottom bolt is not screwed, I don't know how to tighten it, and to what torque, as there's nothing to hold the black tube from turning.
    Also, the black cap can be popped off with 2 fingers , as seen in the picture. What keeps it from falling at the bottom of the fork?
    IMG-20190212-WA0034.jpg



    The spring is larger than the groove on top, doesn't have any guide, just sits on top.
    20190212_230046.jpg

    Attached Files:

    #30
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  11. raduklr

    raduklr Adventurer

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    There are no spacers between the top of the spring and the fork cap. Even without a spacer, there's 4cm of preload on that spring, but this might be OK, I don't know. It will require some spring compressor I think.
    IMG-20190212-WA0037.jpg


    Close-up of the rubber stoppers
    IMG-20190212-WA0032.jpg




    Close-up of the fork cap. I have no idea how the preload can work without a large cap connected to the adjuster, that can push the spring down.
    IMG-20190212-WA0033.jpg




    Also, does the kit re-use some of the original inner parts from the fork, like the black spacer that slides inside de spring, or the top plastic cap?

    The manual is 4 pages long, and pretty useless. I heard it's much better (30 pages) for other bikes.

    I realize some of these questions may seem mundane to some , but I don't have experience with these fancy cartridges...I already changed the fork oil on my bike, and that wasn't too hard. I'm just afraid of assembling this the wrong way and damaging something.

    Thanks for your inputs
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  12. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    A lot to unpack here:

    First, Thanks for posting the pictures and asking the questions. I'm in the same boat you are about being a cartridge/fork noob. I will note that the cartridges looks well made from your pictures.

    Second, @BygDaddee Did a great, nay amazing, write up on the install (https://advrider.com/f/threads/f800gs-suspension-upgrade.821115/page-4#post-28793979). He may be gracious enough to answer some of the questions...namely the the groove/spring issue you've raised. ***Update*** In looking at @BygDaddee 's pictures I see spacers on both the top and the bottom of the springs. So Omnia maybe left them out of your package. :hmmmmm:hmmmmm

    Screen Shot 2019-02-12 at 15.53.39.png

    Third, I think you do re-use the spacers from the stock forks. Pretty sure I saw that on another thread. Regardless, you absolutely need a spacer in there. In reviewing their install guide, a spacer is present in the picture and it says "insert the spring and the spacer..." Call Omnia and ask them. They have been very helpful to me in email correspondence and seem to speak English better than most people from Texas. ***Update, in looking at @BygDaddee 's post (link above) it looks like it did come with spacers...Again, I'll defer to him to provide what he can recollect.

    Screen Shot 2019-02-12 at 15.51.25.png

    Fourth, "The 4 cm of preload" is alright. You'll need to compress the spring when installed it. There are few methods online as to the best way to do it. Until it's compressed everything just kind of rattles around.

    Fifth, For the bolt on the bottom, just use the standard torque specs for that size of bolt. If the bolt doesn't list the steel grade, I'd call/email Omnia and ask. I would advise you to Blue Loctite it as well.
    torque.jpg


    Sixth,Thanks for the picture of the "o-rings" According to @Paudux the street version only had one o-ring...this has four. That is the improvement my local suspension guy was going to do.

    Seventh: Did you see a spring rate on those springs? In the past, they were posted, but other inmates who just got their stuff stated it was not printed on the springs.

    If I got anything wrong, folks. Please weigh in!

    Here are a few videos: (skip the part where they file down part of the fork!) (skip the part where they remove the fork legs...also not in engrish but helpful)
    #32
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  13. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Also, I note you said it looks nothing like the road kit? How so? Did you have the previous kit the 105/W04? Thanks.
    #33
  14. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Also, I think you may have the exterior aluminum tubes upside down. I believe the black end points up and the silver end points down. I'm going off pictures here...so if I'm off let me know.
    #34
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  15. raduklr

    raduklr Adventurer

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    Thanks for your clarifications, very useful, as well as the videos, there was a tricky part with the 4 turns on the hydraulic adjuster before tightening the top cap.
    I've never had the previous kit, I did see BygDaddee's write up, that's where I saw he had extra parts (the guides on each end of the spring) and the outer aluminum tube is an assembled part.
    Spring rate : looked everywhere on the spring, and on the various packages, it is not mentioned anywhere.
    As for the aluminum tubes, that's what I thought too, but they came in this way , and you can't put them backwards, it won't fit (the end without the black piece has a smaller ID, that's what stops it from sliding all the way down).
    #35
  16. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    I’d give a call to Omnia Racing.... I was sure they were upside down. But you may be missing a couple parts. One or two other posts on other websites noted that parts have been omitted.
    #36
  17. raduklr

    raduklr Adventurer

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    I did, waiting for their reply, as I'm now quite sure it's missing at least the spring guides.
    #37
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  18. raduklr

    raduklr Adventurer

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    OK, so both Omnia Racing and Andreani are answering that there are no missing parts, (omnia barely read my mail...).
    And after playing with it I now am convinced that assembled according to their instructions, I lose preload adjustment, so no static sag for me !

    20190218_151014-text.jpg


    As you can see, the preload adjuster moves inside the spring, and doesn't adjust anyting...

    20190218_145724-text.jpg



    So after playing for our, I realized the diameters of the aluminum tube and the top cap are the same, and they fit into each other.
    So I put the spring at the bottom and the tube at the top. Now I have preload, the springs have nice seated surfaces, and so far everything seems to fit without forcing. I can even put the top cap without a spring compressor :-)
    No idea if this is how it's supposed to be , but that's how I'm going to install it.
    2 big thumbs down to Andreani instruction manual , it doesn't even show this model, and the mounting is obviously wrong.
    20190218_202645.jpg
    #38
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  19. cgguy09

    cgguy09 Scientiæ Cedit Mare

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    Good write-up... and good pictures. Again, I'm no expert, but I always thought the springs needed to be on top to ensure the valving work was sitting in the oil bath.

    You're absolutely right about the preload adjuster needing to make contact with the springs. But on most forks, the pre-load adjuster makes contact with a spacer, and the spacer makes contact with the spring.

    I would send the picture to both Andreani and Omni racing and see what they say. I might even consult a fork specialist.

    Good luck, my friend & thanks for documenting this experience.

    -cFogs
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  20. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    To me its looks like your problem is the wrong spring, too big a diameter, is the long black guide close to the internal of the springs or a big gap ? They aren't your original springs are they ?

    And I hate to ruin the party, but if you put them in with the spring at the bottom and the tubes at the top, your damping wont work right, those tubes have to be immersed in oil.
    And make sure you get the right tube onto the right leg screwed to the right cap, compression damping has the relief hole in the tube at the top, and rebound damping has the relief hole in the tube at the bottom.

    #40
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