Annoyed by Garmin Zoom Level detail? - Act now!

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by MotoTex, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    At least outside of big cities, perhaps what he means is that the map should show as much detail as possible. He can look at map and decide where he wants to navagate to. You really don't need some computer dishing out real time instructions just to follow a map to a desired location.

    With CN in my Nuvi, all the towns go away as soon as I zoom out at all but all the highway numbers stay like I really care what the number of the road I am on is. I have to use R&R on my small screen 76 to see actual towns where I want to go.
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  2. Disco Stu

    Disco Stu Long timer

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    The older models showed much more detail at lower zoom levels than current models.

    I ride a lot of smaller state highways and side roads. When I had a 478, I could be zoomed out far enough to see a couple of miles around me, but still have enough detail to see all of the smaller roads in the area. If I came up to a small side road that looked interesting, the 478 would show me enough detail so that I could see if it dead ended just around that corner, or if it connected to another road in a couple of miles.

    With my zumo 660, 665 and IBM Nav5, i can either:
    1) be zoomed at the same level as the 478 above, but I can't see as much detail
    -or-
    2) I can zoom in further to see as much detail as I used to be able to see, but now I'm zoomed in so far that I can't see how far that small side road actually extends.

    The 478 used to have something like 7 different levels of detail. The newer models only have three, 'Normal', 'Less' and 'More' detail. I want 'More More More' detail.
    #42
  3. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    :rofl
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  4. NorthernTraveler

    NorthernTraveler Long time Adventurer

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    I scout with a Garmin 498 - it's a 5" fishfinder - old tech but with Road & Rec loaded I can see every road for 8 miles ahead of me, and 2-3 miles on either side.

    Try THAT with the newer units!

    IT's so handy I ride with it all the time... yeah, it's an older receiver chip, yeah it uses Garmin data cards, yeah it has no battery so I have to hard wire it, yeah it only handles 15 tracks (of 700 points!), yeah it only handles 50 routes, yeah it weighs 2 pounds.... but it's bright, weather proof, rugged, but most importantly - I can see what's around me!

    That's what a GPS is for, isn't it?

    Know where I'm at and what's around me?
    #44
  5. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    I'd be willing to bet that most gps units would give much more detail farther out if you loaded something as old as Roads & Recreation to them.

    The biggest impediment is the map, CNNA in most modern units.

    I run Canada Enhanced Basemaps in my Montana, roughly equivalent to R&R, and I see all back road detail to 5 Km, which is just perfect, imho.

    So no need to go searching for an antique gps. Just load the right mapset and you're laughing.


    Sent using strings and tin cans and Tapatalk.
    #45
  6. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    Here are some examples of more map detail from OSM and Canada Enhanced Basemaps.


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    #46
  7. Disco Stu

    Disco Stu Long timer

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    I disagree. I had the same exact mapsets on my 478 and zumo 665 and the 478 showed much, much more detail.
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  8. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    Did you remember to turn off CNNA when you ran your test? It is dominant and will hide any other mapset if it's enabled.


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  9. Lobby

    Lobby Viel Spass, Vato!

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    Nailed it. :thumb

    Thanks.
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  10. Disco Stu

    Disco Stu Long timer

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    By CNNA do you mean City Nav North America?

    City Nav North America was the ONLY mapset I had installed on my 478 and my Zumos. The exact same version of CNNA.

    On older devices, greater detail was rendered at a fixed zoom level (say 1" = 1 mile) than was rendered on newer devices at the same zoom level. On older devices, I had the option of specifying a higher level of detail than the new models offer.
    #50
  11. Lobby

    Lobby Viel Spass, Vato!

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    Yep. The zoom level detail detail issue was inherent in the machine design, not in the mapsets. Folks using the latest gen of CNNA get the same wonderful detail as I get, even though I haven't upgraded mapsets.

    Having to choose another mapset to solve this problem, while it may be workable, seems silly to me. The solution is a mere software thing. Jeez, Garmin. :rolleyes
    #51
  12. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    You are right. While I sometimes use OSM for the additional small roads and greater display detail, I have the option of using CNNA and Navteq maps too.

    Question: If Open Street Maps can include a field or value or instruction that causes Garmin devices to display more detail at zoomed out levels, can some suitably advanced intelligence change that for CNNA?

    The maps appear to be highly compressed and strangely encoded -- I cannot make heads or tails of the file contents. But the encoding is not secret and OSM map data can be encoded to work for Garmin devices. Couldn't the Navteq maps be unencoded, have this field or value changed, then re-encoded to supply even MORE detail?
    #52
  13. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    That's because changing mapsets on older Garmin units is slow. With the Montana, you can create a profile customised for each mapset, and a shortcut to switch profiles in a fraction of the time it would take you to get into Map Setup mode.

    And all the modern Garmin handhelds have Profiles.


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  14. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    There's no way I'd be happy with anything less than this kind of detail: This is from the Canada Enhanced Basemap. It's at least 10 years old but is awesome on the Montana, 78, 62, Oregon, Dakota and other current handheld gps units (with 5 levels of map detail).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    CNNA does lose detail over 1.2km zoom level on the Montana, but not this old map.
    #54
  15. NorthernTraveler

    NorthernTraveler Long time Adventurer

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    Both the Canadian Enhanced Basemap and the US Road & Rec show the same level of detail when zoomed out.

    That's why many like and recommend R&R for use in the US.

    Just as others like Enhanced Basemap in Canada.

    And I find changing mapsets on older Garmins quite easy - you can turn on/off the entire mapsets with just a few clicks.
    #55
  16. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    Just downloaded R&R into Nuvi and much more detail over CN. I am sure Dan or some other knowledgable inmate said he knew that detail is specified by zoom level in the map set.
    #56
  17. Ritalin Boy

    Ritalin Boy Petroconsumptivitius

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    I feel your pain.

    This is a problem most noted by Zumo users who started with the original Street Pilots or the x78 series.

    For this particular group of users the solution is a Montana.

    The only thing the Zumo is good for is music, phone calls and finding the next bar.
    #57
  18. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    True, but when you load them to the GPS, they all need to be loaded at once, into one gmapsupp.img file. A modern Garmin handheld can have many separate map files. This is a huge advantage.
    #58
  19. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS Supporter

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    The Cartography Group at Garmin tag the layers (detail) of the map for zoom level support. If they don't want to show particular road class detail at ≥0.8mi they tag the detail in that layer as such. On the other hand, the device folks also have the ability to not show detail even if it is available in the map data.

    In the case of the new Garmin Maps they don't seem to believe in showing detail (class 4 roads) >0.5mi. Garmin can change this behavior but only when enough customers request it.

    As for R&R having more detail than current CNNA, not true. In some areas R&R might show more class-4 roads or trails at a ≥0.5 but that doesn't mean those roads even exist any longer--as is the case for many of them in the Pacific Northwest where logging companies (private land owners) have been given tax incentives to remove the roads, some of which had become recreational byways over the years.

    Using 20 year old+ maps alone is rarely a good idea when it comes to safe travel. I have R&R on my GPS units, including my NAV5, as another piece of navigation info along with the latest CNNA and other maps for my explorations.

    CNNA 2024.40 (NAV5 Terrain View)

    [​IMG]

    R&R v3.3 (I left the NAV5 Terrain View on)

    [​IMG]
    #59
  20. TRZ Charlie

    TRZ Charlie That's MR. Asshole

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    Personally I don't use it to navigate. What I use it for is in Mapsource and Basecamp to note and place waypoints at historic places or remote campgrounds and other tidbits. It is still useful in limited ways.
    #60