Another CRF1000L fork thread!! Reg vs Adv Sport forks.

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by Motociclo, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    Thoughts on getting ATAS outer tubes Kashima coated before even swapping in? Extra insurance or completely unnecessary?

    Hadn't even crossed my mind until my suspension guy mentioned it...now that I've spent $600 on parts and planning on $200 in labor for the swap, another $500 for coating would bring me to $1300 that I did not spend on Ohlins forks :bluduh
    #81
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  2. Dillo

    Dillo Almost Awesome

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    I thought the ATAS forks already are Kashima coated?
    #82
  3. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    As far as I can tell, the claims here on ADVRider that the ATAS tubes are Kashima coated have never been substantiated. I can't find anything with Honda officially confirming a new coating and never saw any posts here with someone explaining or showing how they could tell. The color difference is obvious and Motociclo's measurements confirm the dimensional difference. Other than that...

    Is there a reliable way to tell if the factory coating is up to the task? I have new ATAS upper tubes on hand. I want to believe...I don't want to spend the extra dough if tubes don't need it, but also want to ride for at least the next 6 months without thinking about these damned forks for a second once I get back on the road (notwithstanding adjustments). Really trying to put this issue to bed!!!
    #83
  4. Motociclo

    Motociclo Long timer

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    I found this review on adv sport.
    The claim is forks have recieved "new" treatment. Doesn't say Kashima though.


    https://adventuremotorcycle.com/bikes/bike-review-crf1000l2-honda-africa-twin-adventure-sports
    #84
  5. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    I saw that article, too, and one of Revzilla says something to the affect of "I'd get a 2018-19 with the Kashima coating". So those two articles and a lot of talk here on ADVRider. I wish we had something definitive. Where is the notion originating from, any how? I mean is this just a rumor passed around on wishful thinking...did Honda say something, did someone ask?

    So do I gamble my money on the front end by paying for a Kashima coat I might not need or gamble on the back end end by hoping I don't need it then if I do need it done hopefully I won't have ruined my outer tubes with the wear?

    Put another way, what are the chances I'll f'up these new ATAS tubes in a couple thousand miles - to the point I wouldn't be able to have them Kashima coated at that time? Would prefer the "wait and see" (if I have to spend $500 on a legit Kashima coat) approach unless I am going to do irreparable damage in the mean time.
    #85
  6. Motociclo

    Motociclo Long timer

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    Not sure where the oem Kashima coat stuff came from. But if you haven't heard a good rumour by 9am, you should start one!!

    Too date there hasn't been any reports of adv sport forks having same issue. But there has been of reg af twin tubes 18 model, that have still worn off coating.
    Adv sport tubes are a lot stronger.
    If normal tube is simply not up to task, no coatings will work properly. The coating needs a decent platform to be applied to.

    I have similar thoughts as you. Is ut a waste if time and money?? Only time will answer that one.
    #86
  7. africa twin

    africa twin Been here awhile

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    Thanks for checking
    #87
  8. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    Local suspension guru on whether or not to get my brand new ATAS upper tubes coated or not:
    -Only worth the time to Kashima coat brand new tubes, any wear can affect coating and negate the point
    -MX guys will buy multiple sets of upper fork tubes and get them all coated at once to rotate them out as basically consumable items so the turn-around time to Japan doesn't leave 'em hanging
    (HOLY CRAP! Sounds expensive)
    -No way to know if coating on new tubes is legit or not but it "does appear more-or-less the same as coating on modern MX forks" (Could the same be said about std AT upper tubes?)

    Conclusion: I am skipping coating for now. I am hoping it isn't the pivotal issue here, rather I am praying that it's the dimensional differences in the AT vs. ATAS tubes that will ultimate alleviated wear and stiction issues. Whether I get stiction mid-season or make it through to the winter, I will bring him forks for oil change and inspection. At that point, worst case scenario I buy a second pair of ATAS upper fork tubes to then have recoated, so out another $600 and then the $500 for coating I am passing on now...so this is a potentially $600 gamble = cost of another set of ATAS upper tubes to start over with.

    Didn't realize Ohlins forks were basically $3k, not feeling so bad about spending money getting these forks squared away given I have yet to take serious issue with valving (heavier springs front and back tho). Worst case scenario ATAS tubes don't work out for me and I sell the bike in defeat, "True Adventure" dreams completely squashed. Thanks again, Honda. I would have taken conventional forks on the AT to not have to deal with this BS. Then again I'm going to be pretty damn happy if I make it through this entire season with properly functioning forks. This bike is 90% my unicorn when it's forks are working as intended.
    #88
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  9. motosickle2000

    motosickle2000 Been here awhile

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    #89
  10. readonly24

    readonly24 Been here awhile

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    As far as I understand the website, this is valid for the AT and ATAS, right?

    Starting form 2018, I guess?
    #90
  11. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    This is awesome, thanks! It does appear to be valid for all 2018 AT and ATAS models.

    Straight from Honda Japan's mouth: All 2018 Africa Twins have Kashima-coated upper fork tubes.

    So for me this means I am glad I did not spend the extra $500 on getting my new ATAS upper tubes coated before having my local suspension guy swap them onto my forks. Unfortunately, the only way to know if any components have the coating is to hear it from the manufacturer. Fortunately, we finally have! Honda USA silent, even if it's in Japanese from Honda Japan, I'll take it!

    Who wants to gander why only Honda Japan has made mention of this...!?
    #91
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  12. enigmakiwi

    enigmakiwi Adventurer

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    Babbitts have my money, someone from USPS has my forks, and I have neither.
    #92
  13. Amphib

    Amphib A mind is like a parachute....

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    Can you take this up with your credit card company? Sorry you're having trouble.
    #93
  14. enigmakiwi

    enigmakiwi Adventurer

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    Yes that will be the trick but a bit of a lobe
    That will be a trick but worth a try.
    #94
  15. yokesman

    yokesman Long timer

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    my wife was in accounting, we do it all the time. Call them up .
    #95
  16. enigmakiwi

    enigmakiwi Adventurer

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    Checked into my account page, over the weekend they have cancelled the order and are returning funds. They must have a resolve with USPS. Anyway, more (any) communication right from the beginning would have helped. I was never informed when they were shipped and no tracking number, so I was totally unaware of the situation.
    And another lesson learnt, don't be too patient.
    Now, where am I going to get some ATAS uppers from.
    #96
  17. Lost Cartographer

    Lost Cartographer Been here awhile Super Supporter

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    Do yourself a favor and skip the ATAS setup and get the Ohlins.

    The ATAS forks are still very flexy, and they bind up on square edged hits.

    Hindsight being 20/20 I shouldn't have spent $1200+ usd just to end up with mediocre forks.

    This is your chance to learn from my mistake.
    #97
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  18. enigmakiwi

    enigmakiwi Adventurer

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    That indicates the 48mm inner on the Ohlins is way better than the 45mm inner of the AT, given the upper OD of the ATAS is similar to the Ohlins. In NZ the Ohlins would be approx $4,500 on a $24,500 standard AT for comparison.
    I had my original AT forks rebuilt with RG3 valves and springs, massive improvement compared to standard ATs that I ride with. One thing though I reckon the fork oil is lasting only 5,000kms then I am continually winding up the rebound.
    If there is any fork anodising wear going on I will soon find out.
    #98
  19. Lost Cartographer

    Lost Cartographer Been here awhile Super Supporter

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    That's my guess as well, but I haven't ridden the Ohlins forks.

    I'm currently on my 7th iteration of fork tuning. I can either get them to be properly compliant (but are way too soft off road) or I can get them kinda working off road (but are very harsh on sharp edges and way overdamped on road). In either case they are still way stickier than they should be, have lots of fore-aft flex, and they bind up on square edges.

    Don't get me wrong, compared to my stock 2016 forks the ATAS setup is WAY better, but it is also no where near where I think it should be.

    The SSS forks are sounding good right now, no way I'm going to put $2800 into ohlins forks on a bike that is worth $7500 or so (and that i have $14k+ into already)
    #99
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  20. Junglejeff1

    Junglejeff1 Long timer

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    Same issue with mine.Have set up mainly for offroad and slightly harsh on road.Have .82 springs in it with gold valve.