Any experience with Qulbix?

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by Viking84, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    First signs of spring are here and I've had a chance to take another couple of short rides! Still amazed by the bike, Eco mode is perfect for responsible legal cruising, and limits the bike nicely to 25kph without reducing the torque or limiting its ability to climb (or even pop wheelies). Full power mode is still nuts, so much so that I still find it a handful to manage for more technical riding. Will probably leave it in Eco 90% of the time when trail riding unless the trail opens up and I want more speed.

    Did a 7km ride yesterday, along a dirt road and back home. Some elevation change, muddy / snowy conditions and no use of regen + very light pedalling still resulted in a power usage of 31.4 Wh/km which is pretty good for the conditions. I think this bike will be a fantastic tool to explore forest trails that have previously been off limits for my motorbike :)

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    #21
  2. redbrix66

    redbrix66 n00b

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    Hi Viking, great looking bikes! (I ride a GS Adventure!)
    Out of interest can I ask why you chose the Qulbix 140 over the 76r? Like you I want the bike to not draw too much attention and was gravitating towards the 76r. Was it the hub motor that put you off?
    Thanks!
    #22
  3. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    It was both the hub motor and the lower battery capacity that turned me away from the 76 in the end. I was worried about the looks of the bigger bike too, which is why I got mine with a bicycle seat, but when you see it in real life you quickly realise that the size difference between a bicycle like the Q140MD and a motorbike of any kind (the GS being on the larger side of things of course) is quite noticeable. The Qulbix is just so much smaller and will never be mistaken for a motorbike :)

    It is however powerful enough to ride like a lunatic, and will happily pull a wheelie off the throttle even at 30-40kph, so you could easily ride it in a manner that would draw lots of attention ;) Leave it in ECO anywhere you are likely to be around people and you will be absolutely fine though. For trail riding I also prefer ECO as it mellows out the throttle response a bit, making it easier to be precise when hopping over step ups and rocks or whatever you encounter. This might change as I become more familiar with the bike, but I honestly doubt it as ECO mode still leaves me with more than enough torque to climb any hill I have tried so far :)
    #23
  4. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    Another spring ride today, down what I thought would be a snow free gravel road which turned out to be covered with 10cm of slush / ice! The bike is amazingly easy to handle though, but I did have some trouble keeping the front wheel pointed in the right direction as it kept sinking down through the slush and tracking off to the side.

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    #24
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  5. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    Forgot to add - the regen brake is fantastic in these conditions, it basically cannot lock up the rear wheel (no rolling = no current = no braking effect), but it still slow you down to walking pace pretty quickly.
    #25
  6. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    A bit more info for the EV nerds, cross posted from the Endless Sphere boards:

    I did a bit of testing when I got back to see if I could tune out one aspect of the throttle response that has annoyed me. Basically, if you reach a bit of speed, and shut off the throttle, it will go to zero amps and coast along nicely as it should. But if you slowly roll on the throttle again it will apply negative amperage (i.e. regen braking) until your speed matches your throttle input. Very different from a motorbike, so I had to sort this out.

    Qulbix suggested I test three parameters in the app for the KLS 7230 S controller, and here are my results:

    Accel Time: Default is 1 - This is just the time it takes to ramp up the motor response when you get on the throttle. Kind of affects the regen, but only in so far as it slows down all throttle response. Not the right option for me.

    Torque Speed Kp: Speed percentage supposedly, default is 5000 - this made very little sense to me, setting it to 1000 resulted in very little acceleration, setting it to 8000 made very little difference at all compared to stock. No change to the regen.

    Torque Speed Ki: Speed integral, default is 30 - setting this to 15 first, then 2, and then 0, seemed to improve things quite a bit. I still get a tiny bit of regen after coasting, but much much less than I used to do, and it no longer upsets the bike as you transition from rolling to accelerating. Problem solved (well, 99% gone).


    I don't understand why there isn't a setting in the controller software that simply tells it to never do any regen braking unless I specifically request it via the regen brake lever, but I can't blame Qulbix for that - might send a suggestion in to Kelly Controllers ;) I would also love to see the control loop calculations and where these parameters actually fit in, but I somehow doubt they will send them to me :p There are some closed loop calculations going on here matching the motor output to speed somehow, which I would very much like to get rid of.
    #26
  7. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    Lots of spam from me here today:

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  8. Plawa

    Plawa ¿ʞO ǝʞᴉq ʎɯ sI

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    How do you talk to the controller? Via BT through an app or directly via RS-232? On my bike (Trials EM) you can tune the regen parameters directly in the controller.. see [3] here:

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    #28
  9. Plawa

    Plawa ¿ʞO ǝʞᴉq ʎɯ sI

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    Love the BMW badge ;)
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  10. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    I have been using the BT app so far - looks like I might have to bite the bullet and hook it up to a laptop! Edit: I am not sure that is the correct setting though, as releasing the throttle actually doesn't apply any regen. Only when I roll the throttle on slowly, where the "throttle opening" is less than the actual speed, do I get this weird momentary regen effect

    Haha, yeah it was the only key-ring I had without any metal on it to avoid it rattling ;)
    #30
  11. Plawa

    Plawa ¿ʞO ǝʞᴉq ʎɯ sI

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    #31
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  12. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    Thanks for the link! I just sent Qulbix an e-mail to check if there is anything I should consider before hooking the bike up to my laptop for tuning. I will have to do another test ride tomorrow, as I've been able to reduce the regen so much now that I may not bother using the PC software, and risking changing something I shouldn't...
    #32
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  13. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    Had a bit more time to play with settings while practicing wheelies today, and discovered a couple of things. The "Accel Time" setting, while not affecting the regen issue, was actually quite useful to adjust. The default is 1, which makes for 0.1 seconds of lag between throttle input and result which feels very brutal when you are used to a petrol engine that takes a little bit of time to get the message. Setting it to 3 (0.3 seconds delay) was much more familiar and makes the bike, even in full power mode, feel much easier to control.

    Secondly, and perhaps most interestingly, I found out that the regen issue (regen when rolling on the throttle after coasting), is only there in Eco mode! It is not present at all in full power mode. Very very strange, and seems to indicate that Eco mode turns on some form of speed control in addition to the torque control from the throttle. I have no idea how to get around this, reckon I will need to get in touch with Kelly Controllers directly to find out what is going on in that mode.

    I could always just ride in full power all the time, but having the mellower power delivery and 25 kph top speed from Eco mode is very nice when I'm trying to ride in a responsible and legal manner. The whole ride yesterday was in Eco and I never felt like I needed more power.
    #33
  14. Baja Ho

    Baja Ho Momentum is your friend

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    Beautiful bike, could you possibly take a few pictures of the frame & battery with the covers off, don't see any on their website. Also is the battery removable for charging?
    #34
  15. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    Thanks :) Can certainly take a couple of pictures with the side cover off! The battery is not easily removable from what I understand (haven't opened it up yet to see), and the charging port is located on top of the frame below the "ignition".
    #35
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  16. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    A video of me trying to learn to wheelie... it would appear I should have done this at 15 rather than 35!

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  17. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    A size comparison for those who are interested. I got a few comments both online and from friends that there was no way the Qulbix would pass as a bicycle, it looked far too much like a motorbike. I almost started to get worried until it actually arrived ;) What most pictures don't show you is the scale!

    Here are a couple of shots of it next to my KTM 690. The Q140MD is tiny by comparison, and even though it is stood closer to the wide angled lense of my mobile phone in these pictures you can see both the height difference and the overall mass difference between the two bikes.

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    #37
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  18. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    A little picture from my first test run with the motorcycle hitch carrier from Discount Ramps, works a treat!

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    #38
  19. Viking84

    Viking84 Long timer

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    And another video for the other three people in this thread ;)

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  20. semper-guzzi

    semper-guzzi Been here awhile

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    Make that 4 now ha ha
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