Are new bikes to complicated and fragile?

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by Johannes Carlsson, Oct 6, 2020.

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Are all new bikes to complicated?

  1. Yes, all i need is a engine on wheels

    26 vote(s)
    81.3%
  2. I love gadgets! Can´t ride without bluetooth, colour screen and keyless

    6 vote(s)
    18.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Johannes Carlsson

    Johannes Carlsson Spreadsheet Racer

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    Yesterday while waiting for my wife to go in to labor (first child on the way, but nothing yet) like usual I´m sitting in the sofa watching Youtube on the TV. Watching DriveMag Riders comparison between the 2020 BMW 1250 GS and Africa Twin. Riding offroad of course the Africa Twin stalls, he needs to stop, switch the driving mode to go up the hill, that ain´t fun.
    Do we really need the TCS at all?
    Should we have to stop, hold a button for seconds to switch of ABS?
    Do we need all that weight and wonky plastics?
    I mean it does it´s thing but doesn´t it take a large bit of the fun out of riding?
    Should you have to fiddle through endless menus before setting of to your ride, turn on this, turn off that. Wait for the system to boot, showing a fancy animation before you can start the engine?

    When I bought my 2018 Tiger 800XC I was more road biased and since I am getting more into trail riding. But it was standing there and I was intrigued by the selectable riding modes, cruise control, that color TFT display etc. But what happened is I just end up riding it in off-road mode all the time. That way I´m free to pop a wheelie when I feel like, do powerslides on gravel roads or simly just climb a washboard gravel road climb without stopping before and switching mode since TCS don´t allow wheelspin so it will eventually slow down to a stop of in street mode.

    When I go to a store to check out the new models I constantly find a few added plastic parts compared to the previous models. Feels like that´s a thing that will break off easily. Weight is often gained.

    Engineering advancements in manufacturing technology and design gives us better performing engines and chassis. How should we go at is to get that advancements paired with pure connection to the bike, instant control. it used to be just to flip the key, start the engine and go.

    I wish for a bike with instant switchable on/off ABS on the left side handlebar. Comfortable enough (vibrations & seat) for light Touring, Light enough to pick up many times, with enough power for touring. And tough enough to not needing to get new parts after a few drops. MX/Enduro bikes does it, can we have a Dual-sport/Andventure that passes those demands. Is it to much to ask? The Tenere 700 is probably the closest thing today with a few minor "dumb" solutions, but I´m expecting they will ruin it with an update and each new bike announcement keeps disappointing me. Is there hope for the future or should I just continue and become a true grumpy man, saying things were better before?

    How do you feel about technology packed in the motorcycles?
    #1
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  2. Moronic

    Moronic Long timer

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    I think most of the tech gadgetry is marketing and we’d be as well off without it. Someone will point out something useful and I will reply that I said most, not all.

    “Riding modes.” I think Ducati thought up that one with the Multistrada. And then all of a sudden everyone thought they needed it.

    A friend who raced dirt bikes in his teens and who rides tarmac twisters in a parka and jeans at age 60 is looking at new bikes and says he wants cornering ABS on whatever he gets. Never mind that he has ridden off and on for 40 years, has been riding a non-abs road bike for the past 10 years, and has never crashed on a corner or under braking.

    And cornering ABS is arguably one of the useful gadgets. FFS hands-free ignition keys and traction control. The traction control is handy on a 200hp motorbike but if you need it you shouldn’t be on one. It’s mainly useful so that they can sell novices bikes with big numbers that they can boast about but won’t use. The alternative would be to cut the horsepower, add some weight to the rotating bits and improve low-speed throttling. But that wouldn’t sell.

    And no, there’s no hope and you should become a true grumpy man.











    :hide

    Oh, and I like overpowered bikes, so there’s that. And I have had a couple of experiences over the past dozen years where some traction control would have been handy.
    #2
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  3. MongoLikeCandy

    MongoLikeCandy It Never Gets Easier, You Just Go Faster

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    I think george answers your questions and expands on the topic for your consideration....enjoy



    #3
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  4. CROSSBOLT

    CROSSBOLT Been here awhile

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    Personally, I think a MOTORCYCLE with 6 CPU's is insane. The simple electronic fuel injection on the avatar is wonderful but "body control modules" or CPU for single track vehicles is over-engineering at best and not necessary.
    #4
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  5. MongoLikeCandy

    MongoLikeCandy It Never Gets Easier, You Just Go Faster

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    Q: does one need 200hp on a non-comp street moto? need overly jacked up/lifted trucks? need big gym muscles? need 6 cpus on moto?

    A: Universal Law #13 -

    "Hp, size of truck, gym muscles # of cpus are inversely related to size of dick"


    a cyclist FIRST .... i/we as a cycling-twat community blow the moto-twat community away insofar as consumer bitches, slaves to the largest greatest gadget, trinket, style, tech widget, fashion, gear, flashing disco ball and vibrating egg....its insane....biggest and latest "debate" the last few years in cycling is

    disk vs rim brakes

    start WW3 on any forum, in any cafe with that lead in....all I will say is

    "this year TdF was won on a bike with rim brakes, bitch...garson...may I have another espresso please....NEXT.

    I've been riding the same $15K carbon bike, #ItalianMistressNo2 (look it up on DaGram) with electronic shifting, alloy wheels and rim brakes .... ridden all over the world, in as many different environments for the last 5 years....shes still going strong.

    my LBS owner....love him so, dear friend is always showing me the latest newest bike, gear, carbon wheels, ultra light bike, trinkets, bike bling, ect....i know.....hes just doing his job....but he knows he's wasting his talents on me.....as there are other, softer, weaker, men of the species who are much more appreciative and susceptible the pitch and the sale....and you know who you are.
    #5
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  6. CROSSBOLT

    CROSSBOLT Been here awhile

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    Where
    Where were you when I was single?
    #6
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  7. MongoLikeCandy

    MongoLikeCandy It Never Gets Easier, You Just Go Faster

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    donno. when were you single?
    #7
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  8. ChopperCharles

    ChopperCharles Long timer

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    You know, the Benelli TRK502 and Leoncino have pushbutton, instant on/off antilock brakes, and handlebar mounted to boot.

    Charles.
    #8
  9. danketchpel

    danketchpel Long timer

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    For all the reasons the OP stated is why I like, and will probably buy, the Yamaha T7. It's also why I have a Desert Sled where I can and do leave the ABS permanently off and there are no modes.

    I really don't like rider aids and want that basic bike of yore, like he said, turn it on and RIDE. It's about the ride and being a RIDER, not a passenger.

    I applaud Yamaha for building a proper rider's motorcycle.
    #9
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  10. CROSSBOLT

    CROSSBOLT Been here awhile

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    Which time? Har, har!
    #10
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  11. MongoLikeCandy

    MongoLikeCandy It Never Gets Easier, You Just Go Faster

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    right???!!! seriously!!!
    #11
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  12. LuciferMutt

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

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    I can't vote for either extreme, because some of the new technology has made riding much safer and much more enjoyable. This includes things like ABS, traction control (if you commute in bad weather) and a well-tuned fuel injection system that overcomes all the problems with carbs. Even tire pressure monitoring is a boon for somebody who commutes.

    however, I strongly dislike the new trend of TFT dash displays -- they all look like dead iPhones when the bike is off. Analog gauges always look cool. Plus gauges last forever, and I'm constantly hearing about TFTs shorting out or getting water in them and fucking up the entire bike's electronics.

    On-the-fly adjustable electronic suspension and things like riding modes? No thanks.
    #12
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  13. Johannes Carlsson

    Johannes Carlsson Spreadsheet Racer

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    That's where i want to be. Keeping it simple, but adding benefits with advancements.

    Just look at the T700 dash, big as an iPad but still hard to read properly. Make it small and informative so there's room for my gps device of choice.

    I think the best compromise is just a simple 3-step quick mode switch on the handlebars so you don't even have to look at it
    #13
  14. Night_Wolf

    Night_Wolf Leg Humper

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    3 of the 4 bikes currently parked in the garage do not have ABS brakes; to be fair, 2 of them (Honda GROMs) make about 9 hp :lol3 One bike (The_Mistress) even has carbs :deal

    The newest bike, Moto Guzzi's V85 TT aka The_Italian_Girlfriend, has the TFT display, traction control, ride modes etc... I do like the ABS, even if I have never had it "kick in". I figure at some point in time, it will activate when I need it the most & save me from sliding down the pavement, but like any "decent" rider, I don't rely on it & 3/4 of my miles have been on bikes without ABS. While the bike comes with 3 ride modes, one will most likely never be used (off road) as my bike will most likely remain a pavement princess. I have more than enough miles under my ass, in the rain that I am still undecided as to whether or not I will try rain mode. I will say that I am enjoying the Cruise Control feature, as it's the first bike since my 05 Wee Strom that I can ride without my hands going to sleep
    #14
  15. danketchpel

    danketchpel Long timer

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    I'd fully agree with you on proper EFI vs carbs. Though carbs can be "OK" if you just don't let them sit and don't go up or down too far.

    I don't mind ABS on road bikes and could see traction control IF you commuted in weather cold enough to produce that super slippery stuff. I've never had TPM on a bike, but for touring that might be nice. Same "might" go for cruise control for say crossing west Texas, LOL.....

    I'm even kinda OK with all that rider aid stuff IF one can turn it permanently off if you so wish, give me the option. The one I worry about longer term is ride by wire, same goes for in cars. We encountered a guy in a Ford F-250 diesel in the back country stalled out on the road. We helped him out and after some diagnostics work and googling, figured out he'd blown the fuse that controls the drive by wire throttle connection so he had no throttle control. Luckily we were able to swap a fuse from some other "non essential" (love that term now) circuit and get him on his way. A bit of digging turned up it wasn't so uncommon for that problem to occur in that vehicle, not good. I know Triumph Tiger 800s had some issues with the servo motor for the ride by wire system. BMWs have had more than their share if issues with ABS and various complicated brake systems. I admit KTM has had a lot of EFI issues with fuel pumps etc. on a few of their bikes.

    Cables are pretty dang reliable and easy to fix and the less stuff there is, the less stuff can go wrong.

    I don't mind a mini flat panel info display set between the analog gauges.
    #15
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  16. Jayell

    Jayell Been here awhile

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    Craig, you've written this in a way that suggests switching modes requires great effort or big commitment.

    All it takes is a couple of quick pokes of the mode button. If you don't like it, it's easy enough to switch back.
    #16
  17. Night_Wolf

    Night_Wolf Leg Humper

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    Just don't feel a need for it; I'm happy others want it, but I purchased the bike because it is a middle weight shaft drive. Some features may never be used :hide
    #17
  18. Johannes Carlsson

    Johannes Carlsson Spreadsheet Racer

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    For me i have to stop the bike, poke one button to toggle mode and another button to select. Then it switches when i release throttle. (Tiger 800XC) it's to much of a fuzz. It should be like switching from low to high beam
    #18
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  19. Steve_h1963

    Steve_h1963 Been here awhile

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    It's the claims industry that makes all modern vehicles reset to all safety features on, pita I know.
    I only ride tarmac (in the UK it mostly tarmac or deep mud). I like abs because it just sits there doing nothing till I need it, ditto traction control. They very rarely kick in but when they do it means I've saved some pain and money.
    Only the big Tenere has modes and I use them both, S mode usually and T when the going is a bit treacherous. I could live with either permanently but switching makes thing more fun and safer respectively.
    Some high power bikes though are now pretty much unridable without the electrics, just like a jet aircraft. I don't need that much power for what I do.
    Does all that make me normal or a weirdo
    #19
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  20. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    Depends entirely on how much of an asshole the manufacturer is.

    My DL's are fine, ABS works everywhere and so does TC, even on dirt, even in conditions where some other bikes equivalent systems supposedly don't, yes it's more complex electronics but it's more reliable than the tech it replaced.

    It's where the manufacturer forgets that you brought the bike and YOU own it now that it becomes problematic.
    #20
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