Beezer Madness

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by LC Garage, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Kootenai Rider

    Kootenai Rider Gentleman of Liesure

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    I'll see about pulling the side cover and having him fix. I've got a shiny polished one without a JB weld hole I can swap in. When I was looking over the bike earlier tonight, it seems to be holding still. I fired it up for the first time this year just to make sure there weren't any problems. Don't want to find out there is two days before CRR.
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  2. Ladybug

    Ladybug Bug Sister Supporter

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    Looking forward to seeing everyone CRR. I think I better ask for that Fri. and Mon. off so I can make the best of it. :clap
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  3. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    First, a quick update on non-BSA stuff.

    Luke is preparing to ride his venerable XR400 in the 2017 Sonora Rally http://www.sonorarally.com/ and to the casual observer, it might seem that the more top heavy your bike is, the more competitive. All that gear is mostly for navigation, and that is one of Luke's specialties;
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    How Luke can run all those gadgets and ride at speed is a mystery to me.:hmmmmm

    Kootenai Rider also has a big event coming up, he will be riding in the 2017 Baja 1000. He's not saying much, out of modesty, but it's a pretty big deal! :clap

    Now on to old British bike stuff. The '60 C15S is now officially a roller! :D The fork stanchions arrived from across the pond and with much trepidation they were unpacked and carefully measured against the originals. The only difference we could find, is the oil return holes at the bottom were perpendicular to the fork legs, not parallel. After a bit more cleaning, we were ready to assemble. First everything was laid out and one leg was test fit together;
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    In order to tighten the lower bushing nut, Luke wisely suggested we clamp the stanchion into the triple clamp and then tighten;
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    Once the lower nut is tightened, the stanchion was removed and the lower leg installed. This was done by placing the lower leg casing into a vice, slipping the stanchion with bushings down into the lower leg and installing the upper bushing snap ring. This snap ring is a bit of a bugger. I may have called it a few names :lol3;
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    Then the fork seal and holder are screwed on, using the newly purchased fork holder tool. This tool worked much better than my home made pipe tools;
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    Now the spring and gator are slipped on and the fork leg placed upward into the triple tree. We pre-fit these to ensure the tapers were a good fit and threads were cleaned and lubed in advance so that it would all go together smoothly. Luke assisted in holding the legs in place while I very carefully tightened the nuts and pulled the legs upward into their tapers. Note that the headlight mounts are already in place as the fork legs goes up through them and these mounts are needed to hold the tops of the gators, and in this case will also be a mount for the number plate and probably a headlight as well. Why a headlight? Just because I like the way it will look and I'm thinking about putting a clip of sorts at the top of the headlight to hold a pie plate with my P2 designation on it. Old Skool baby!
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    Then mounted the front wheel;
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    And after buffing all the old black paint off, set the fender on just to see how it looks. Will need to make new fender brackets as the originals were just a mess of old iron and giant bolts;
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    Really liking the way the old girl is starting to look! Randy is already working on the tank. Matt or Satin black with white BSA logos on the sides to match the seat logo. Also it will say "Bar Fly" on the tank, not sure yet if just letters or maybe a bit of WW2 nose art (pinup), we'll see.

    :D
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  4. Scott_PDX

    Scott_PDX Leisure Engineer Supporter

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    Congrats to Luke and Paul for their upcoming races. Are either of them doing a report or anything to follow along?

    That BSA is coming along nicely, looks like even your dog likes it.
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  5. Kootenai Rider

    Kootenai Rider Gentleman of Liesure

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    I will probably start something here on ADV soon, but check out our team Facebook Page - Los Perdidos racing...not much on there yet but as the season goes with training and such, it'll get exciting.

    https://www.facebook.com/LosPerdidosRacing
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  6. Ladybug

    Ladybug Bug Sister Supporter

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    Lot's of action in and out of that garage. I sure wish I were closer so I could be under foot.
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  7. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    Since my last post...

    Been pretty productive, first some motor updates.

    Engine cases after first round of welding. The protective duct tape caught on fire and melted in places, making the job a little harder for Luke;
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    1st round of filing and finishing the welded areas;
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    Once the welded bosses were relatively flat, and everything cleaned up, we set the side cover on to check bolt locations. Luke decided we should use the drill spinning backwards, only to leave a mark and not actually drill, smart man;
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    Two of the four holes were perfect, the others two were slightly off. We duct taped everything back up as carefully as possible and once again Luke set to welding;
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    After the second round of welding and a lot more clean up work, here is where we were at;
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    There was more finishing and cleaning, then on to determine the threads and fasteners;
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    Although not 100% standard sizes, the holes are still British threads and the four holes to be drilled and tapped will be done to the 1/4 x 26 tpi. One decision that's proven useful, is a few months ago I bought 10 lbs of used BSA/Triumph fasteners. I've begun sorting and sizing those and already found homes for some of those fasteners on the chassis and some will also be used on the engine, especially where non standard sizes have been used on the side covers.

    In addition to the motor work, the chassis has been moving forward as well.

    Headlight mounted and fenders and seat mocked up;
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    When the bike first arrived it had an odd conglomeration of iron bits holding the front fender on, it was kind of funny because these fasteners easily outweighed the aluminum fender by quite a bit. However one piece was usable, and another was fabbed from aluminum stock to match, then both were painted and the fender installed;
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    Next up is mounting the newly arrived restored seat (thanks TwinDuro for an awesome job!) and rear fender. The seat mount is a NOS piece found on ebay, note the offset to match the factory offset frame loop and shock on the left side;
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    One of the holes did not line up, so that was drilled, the bracket repainted, then mounted to the seat;
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    At this time I also mounted the rear fender. It required some careful trimming and was mounted at the rear loop using a NOS Triumph fender clamp. I also had to "gently" massage away some interference between the top of the fender and the new seat mount. In the end, it all gradually came together;
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    After cleaning up the left side shock hole (the left side bracket had been repaired at some point and was a bit ragged) the shocks, fender and seat were mounted with some of the used fasteners found in my bulk buy;
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    You may wonder why I left the remnants of the old fender brackets on the rear frame loop. As with many decisions on this bike, was not sure if I would now (or at a later date) weld on fender mounting tabs at those locations and these would once again be visually useful if nothing else. For now they are not in the way and barely noticeable.

    That's it for the moment. Lots of ideas spinning around in my head for both bikes, still toying with the idea of putting Evel's 350 engine in the mx chassis and the mx 250 motor in the trials bike. These would be considered short term options and may come into play depending on how it goes getting both 250's to actually run!

    :D
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  8. Kootenai Rider

    Kootenai Rider Gentleman of Liesure

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    Now that this project is getting wrapped up, are there any other blue projects you're thinking about starting? :evil
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  9. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    :jack:jack:jack:jack:jack
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  10. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    Before descending further into the abyss, here are a few pics of other projects and ADV'ers;

    Luke's bike just before he left for the Sonora Rally. We've not heard a peep from Luke, so assume he is alive and well;
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    Kootenai Rider and Jordan, working on their modern bikes. KR is training on his bike for the Baja 1000, Jordan is prepping for an adventure ride in Baja;
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    Electrex ignition installation in '63 Scrambler, starting with laying out the parts, reading the instructions (for real) and test fitting the rotor on end of crank;
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    The installation was pretty smooth, the only challenge is to ensuring your TDC reference. That is accomplished withe a degree wheel, although the BSA manual and Electrex both give a piston measurement (back down from TDC) as the 35.5 degree mark. I did the degree wheel and throughout the process rechecked with both the degree wheel and the 6.5 measurement, to ensure as the rotor is drawn onto the tapered collet, that it did not rotate.

    Degree wheel process included making a positive stop indicator for the piston from an appropriate used spark plug;
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    Then attach degree wheel to end of crank, and using a screwdriver, as closely as possible position the disc to TDC. A piece of stiff wire is used as the degree wheel indicator;
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    The mark closest to the tip is where I felt TDC and later verified withe degree wheel the upper mark is 6.5 mm apart and when the piston is in this position is 35.5 degrees BTDC;
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    Here is the degree wheel marked up after all necessary measurements were taken. After the disc is installed, and the positive stop indicator screwed in, you rotate the engine either direction until the piston gently nudges up against the rubber tip of the stop and mark the wheel. When you divide the two points you get your actual TDC. In this case the two marks were a total of 32 degrees apart, so 16 degrees from either direction is TDC. in this case it landed on the timing disc at 3 degrees BTDC. I then rotated the disc back from that point 35 degrees (showing on the disc as 38 degrees BTDC) and then gently removed the disc and lined up the rotor and stator without disturbing the crankshaft;
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    At this point I also checked and verified the physical location of the piston using the marked screwdriver. Slowly but surely the stator was drawn in to place on its tapered collet, checking as I went and when it was fully seated, removed the crank nut and used blue loctite for the final tighten and brought it up to 30 lbs ft of torque as per the instructions.

    The rest of the installation was very straight forward, the system is a simple plug and play and came with a nifty coil mounting bracket (installed on the frame tube under fuel tank), as well as an included kill switch.

    Next step was to install a primary chain tensioner, as the primary chain has just enough slack (it appears new, but still there is flex) and I want to no chances of damaging the ignition wiring above it.

    Quality of this piece was not great and it required some hammer and file work to bring it into alignment and get it to fit over the stator studs. Also am a little nervous regarding its hard surfacing (based on the overall quality), but will give it a try and see what happens;
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    Before removing the stator to install the tensioner, a lot of marks were made, so it would be easier to bolt it all back in place with confidence (note: engine has been started, that is why the marks are not all in alignment);
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    Interestingly, by rearranging the factory and Electrex spacers, it all fell into line.
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    At this point the clutch was taken apart and everything inspected and cleaned before final assembly. The new springs and nuts were a real challenge and ended up using the stock pieces, at least for now;
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    This retainer was missing from the prior install and is critical for keeping the nut in place;
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    Prior to adjusting tensioner, excess chain slack (note air gap being set during this stage);
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    Job completed;
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    :D
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  11. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    Back to the trials bike...

    Kootenai Rider was looking at a damaged boss on the RH crankcase cover and suggested we mill off the damaged portion and then machine a spacer to fit. Brilliant. Here KR is milling the damaged section;
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    After milling, and with the spacer KR machined as well as the hardware needed for reattachment;
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    Test fit, looking good;
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    KR also machined one of the original stator spacers for the primary chain tensioner installation on the '63 Scrambler, that was part of the spacer juggling and needed to create room for the rear bracket on the tensioner;
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    Thanks KR! :clap

    :D
  12. Kootenai Rider

    Kootenai Rider Gentleman of Liesure

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    I heard from Luke last night. He's back from Sonora...he finished....dead last....but finished. Killed his XR, but he finished!!!! Sounds like he had a great time too. Woot!

    Glad I could help actually do something on your bike....
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  13. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    Luke is here now, apparently he found out you can repair a fried clutch with barbed wire, but not the same can be said for a blown head gasket!
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  14. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    '60 C15S trials engine block repairs completed. The last step after welding and cleanup was to drill and tap the four "new" bosses. A little guide or fixture was made to ensure straight drilled holes and we used a regular tap as well as a bottom tap to ensure full threads;
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    Today begins a very careful cleanup, then assembly can begin. Working on the '63 Scrambler motor has helped my understanding of what things should look like when it gets put back together and between the two motors and bikes, re-reading some of the Rupert Ratio books is also starting to make more sense.

    Speaking of the '63, yesterday it was finally ridden. After completing the ignition & chain tensioner install and clutch cleanup & inspection, also pulled the right side cover, checked all internal screw & bolts and cleaned & installed covers with carefully measured and (where needed) shortened allen bolts. With primary cover off, that was also the time to repair the badly mangled LH foot rest mount;
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    Cleaned up and ready for Luke to build up the ledge area that mates to the frame lug that was also cleaned up;
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    Thank you Luke!
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    Ready for reassembly. We are still looking to evolve the foot pegs, but for now we can at least ride it;
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    Also went back through the throttle & slide install as it is a conglomeration of new and old pieces, from the throttle grip off the old '60 to an ebay cable & carb, and needed to ensure it worked freely and fully closed. Also pulled and checked the oil pressure relief valve and with that we were ready for a trial run. Luke and I both got a chance to ride the bike, with the compression release now working and the electronic ignition, it fires fairly easily. The carb was running very rich, it has a 260 main jet and we lowered the needle and that helped but not enough. Started looking at all options to fix and re-jet (we've been down that rabbit hole before with the Honda 350 twin, Bleh!) and decided to get a new Amal Premier from Matt Hillgenberg at Speed and Sport. Stay tuned!

    :D
  15. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    Luke update:

    He survived the Sonora Rally, his XR400 did not. IIRC it suffered a fried clutch on day 2 that was helped with some leather boot laces, then on the 3rd day (?) when the shoe laces had burned up, a piece of barb wire from a handy dune fence was relieved of the barbs and wound in between two discs. That held until partway thru day four when a blown head gasket apparently led to what looks like a soft seize of the piston and rings;
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    Parts are ordered and it will soon be as good as new.

    On the '60 C15S trials, yesterday was a last day of fitting case parts and fasteners, flat filing the cases and covers for straightness, gently sanding the flanges so any striations will be parallel to the mating surfaces and not perpendicular and a conduit for oil to escape, countersinking holes and general fitment issues being addressed, then today thoroughly cleaning the motor inside and out and ready for assembly;
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    Tomorrow will begin a slow and careful assembly. Can't wait to get this motor together and in the chassis.

    :D
  16. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    Pulling donor layshaft and gears from an old B40 motor. These are part of the "standard" ratio gear set for the trials bike. Removing and saving the original close ratio set that will be re-purposed to an mx bike. Wide ratio would be preferred, but those are hard to find and VERY expensive.
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    The layshaft second gear was bad (worn shift dogs) but luckily had a much better one in my pile of extra gears. I also had a good main shaft as well as a collection of gears that yielded the remaining gears needed to finish out the standard ratio set. Also checked all shims, replaced one and also noted that the top gear on the main shaft had a thin shim (010.) to go between the bearing and top gear, I went ahead and reused it as this would compensate for some of the side wear on the other gears and shims on that shaft.

    Three layshaft second gears to choose from, the best one is forward most;
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    Main shaft top gears, three to pick from, used the one on the left as it showed the least wear and best shift dog holes. You can also see the one shim that was replaced and new one to the left;
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    Here is the shift shaft mechanism with its new spring installed. Had to look at the book to figure out how it wound on there;
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    With the best available of each shaft, gear and spacers pieced together, the new trans bearing pushed into place and the inner shift pieces mocked up, it was time to set the gear clusters in and see how it all fits. Spent a lot of time looking at the Rupert Ratio book as well as the BSA parts book.
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    Part of the process calls for checking the alignment of the shift cam withe shift cam spring. After the first attempt I moved it as far to the left as it would go, and it seemed to line up properly;
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    How it all looked in place;
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    All that's missing from the trans is the kick start mechanism, wasn't quite ready for that yet, slipped the cover on and so far so good;
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    One thing I discovered in my weekend reading, is that I should have pulled the crankshaft, removed the sludge trap plug and checked and cleaned the interior of the crankshaft. Even though there are cautions against it, part of my day yesterday and again this morning before working on the trans was attempting to flush out the crankshaft in place and soaking/flushing the oil system with brake clean, penetrant and compressed air. I repeated this process over and over until the only thing emanating from the crankcase and lube system was clean and clear. Fingers crossed it is clean enough.

    Whew!
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  17. Beezer Josh

    Beezer Josh Moto-Amish

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    Just my two cents, I'm not sure about the singles as I've never owned one, but the sludge trap in the twins gets pretty gnarly and no amount of brake clean, penetrant, and compressed air is likely to get it even a small bit of it out; that stuff gets rock hard. Especially without knowing the mileage on the crankshaft. If I were you and had spent that much time and energy in the project, I'd tear it down and check/replace, if only for peace of mind. Now that things so far are sorted, it shouldn't take that long to pull apart and reassemble. When things let go due to lack of oil, it's usually pretty spectacular. Just take a look at some of the pics over on the Britbike forum!
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  18. Old Mule

    Old Mule Long timer

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    A BSA project is NEVER wrapped up.
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  19. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday Super Supporter

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    Beezer Josh ~ Thanks, I will take your advice and get the sludge trap cleaned out. This has been quite a learning experience! I also want to thank those of you that helped push us toward the decision to stick with the British fasteners inside the broken case lugs, and not wimp out and go metric. Sometimes these projects can feel a bit overwhelming and you want to take the easy path when you know deep down inside you should do it right. Anyway, thanks to all of you that encourage and offer sound advice! :D
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  20. fxray

    fxray Long timer

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    Truer words were never written. When I was working on my Triumph twin, I read this from John Healy:

    Use a screw driver, gun brushes and some spray brake cleaner (CRC Brakleen) and scrape
    and brush until the tube starts to get clean. Then wrap a paper shop rag around a medium sized
    screw driver and twist it into the hole. With more spray cleaner and a half dozen, or more rags, clean the hole until you think it is spotless, and -- as my mentor always said -- "Then clean it for another ten minutes."
    This is from my low-mile, non-filtered barn bike:

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    If you have already tried to flush the trap in place, you should avoid rotating the crank at all until you tear your engine back apart and clean the sludge trap, the crankcase, and above all else -- the big end rod bearing, which is where the crap goes if it gets disturbed in the sludge trap. When cleaning the trap, don't forget the oil passages to/from the trap.

    On my Triumph, I added an oil filter to the return-to-tank line. Without that, the sludge trap is the filter and it is very effective at trapping particles of all kinds. The only two viable choices are to leave it alone or clean it thoroughly. An advantage of Honda over British bikes is that the Honda centrifugal filter can be accessed for cleaning from the outside of the engine.

    Ray
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