best piston position to kickstart big single?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by fstarocka, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. fstarocka

    fstarocka Adventurer

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    finally sort of got my husky 570 TE going.. but still hard to start. wheres the best place to have piston before kicking, just before/past tdc?

    I'm following the guide to kick about 10 times with choke on and kill switch in. then close choke, stop at tdc and give it a good stomp .. but not sure if I should be before or after or on exhaust tdc?

    plug is clean and getting good spark. is there a way to determine spark timing statically/not running?
    #1
  2. Lewilewi

    Lewilewi Ride it like you stole it......

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  3. fstarocka

    fstarocka Adventurer

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    #3
  4. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junky

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    You slowly kick it through until it comes up on the compression stroke (easily felt), pull in the comp rel. and nudge it just past TDC, again easily felt.. Let go of the comp rel and kick it like the man your wife hopes you are.
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  5. fstarocka

    fstarocka Adventurer

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    well been kicking on and off 2 days straight and she just does not wanna take.. one in a million the magnets might have moved but I epoxied em all round..

    wondering if the cam timing is off.. cos when I bring up the piston theres a short intake, I can see cam opening and what appears to be a tiny compression stroke, like 15 degrees on flywheel, way too little in my experience ..

    just hoping I wouldn't have to tear top end down but this is getting a little nuts..

    #5
  6. Whodatschrome

    Whodatschrome Long timer

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    ...or if you’re single, kick it like the man your estranged father thinks you might become some day.
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  7. OrangeYZ

    OrangeYZ Long timer

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    Unless I'm reading this wrong, it sounds like you're flooding the engine before you even get started.
    Does kill switch in mean the kill button pushed to kill? Because that's not what you want to do.
    If flooded: choke off, compression release pulled, throttle held all the way open, kick 10 or 20 times.

    Could the cam timing be off because you recently put it together maybe wrong, or you don't know the history of the bike or what?
    #7
  8. Big Tall Bastard

    Big Tall Bastard Voice of Reason

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    The procedure for XR 600Rs
    Was twist throttle open all the way,
    Pull in compression release and kick it through 10 times.
    Close the throttle, stroke it past tdc
    Give it a kick
    #8
  9. xrmattaz

    xrmattaz Close to Utlaw

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    If it was flooded. I’ve never ever done that to an XR.
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  10. Big Tall Bastard

    Big Tall Bastard Voice of Reason

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    It was my "go to" starting procedure for 3 XR600Rs
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  11. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junky

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    When starting my 650R cold I'd kick it through with the choke on once and compression release pulled in to prime the motor. 99% of the time it fired first kick after that.
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  12. Guano11

    Guano11 Stop me if you've heard this one....

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    Not sure what we mean by first having the "choke on" -- then "close the choke"? Choke ON is the same as a closed choke.
    That said, I don't think it matters where the choke is during the pre-kicks -- but it oughta be ON (or as in some of my XR650Rs at half-choke) when you're going for light-off.

    Unless of course you've flooded it....
    #12
  13. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer Supporter

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    you always want just after TDC for the kick to start. just an RCH after so get the maximum roll over. priming for start is a different issue, and bike specific.
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  14. Richarde1605

    Richarde1605 Long timer

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    XT500 full choke decompress with full throttle, three kicks. Choke to half and get just past TDC you could start it by hand from there.
    Do not touch the throttle ever when kicking as you just hurt kneecaps and hands when they kick back, trust me on this. Obviously handstarting is safer :-)
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  15. Adanac rider

    Adanac rider O.S.T.R. 62 Supporter

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    The best position to start a kick only bike is finding out you inherited lots of money and spending some of it on a new e-start bike :flug.
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  16. The Jester

    The Jester Long timer

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    I would go with the best position being the top of a hill. If all else fails jump on the bike and bump start it as it rolls down the hill.

    The worst position would be the bottom of a gully on an off camber with the kick start on the uphill side. When I owned my 650R I had her stuck in this position on a few occasions. It was even worse if she had been dropped onto the left side which could leave the air filter soaked with petrol. I loved that bike and have fond memories, but I wouldn't go back there.
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  17. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junky

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    Back in the late 70s and early 80s working at a Yamaha dealership we learned to fire up the SRs, XTs and TTs by hand, it wasn't hard if you know the trick. Worked great for the customer who came in complaining their SR had a starting problem. After watching one of us fire it up that way there wasn't much they could say.
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  18. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Encouragement award recipient. tEAM iDIOT.

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    I remember the old 570 had a bit of a reputation as a hard starter. I could start mine OK, but due to my short legs and the high kick starter I had to stand on something to kick it (left hand kicker, I had to stand beside the bike and use my right leg).

    Mine was the 01 so it had the Mikuni pumper carb, three twists of the throttle, then kick it with authority and make sure you don't touch the throttle.

    I sold mine to a big guy who decided a 450 would be to small for his first bike (my neighbor and I tried to talk him out of it), I started it for him several times, then he had a go and couldn't do it, so I had to leave it sit for a while before I could start it again, then he would stuff up trying to start it and the cycle would repeat.

    I saw the bike for sale again a few months later, ad said it had the carb cleaned valve check and stator replaced so looks like he was still chasing the "hard starting problem" even though I never had any trouble starting in.

    IMG_1283.JPG
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  19. motocopter

    motocopter Long timer

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    Right after the piston has passed tdc. If it's a Yamaha, keep the kick start lever pinned to the foot peg until the engine is running or the internals have stopped moving.
    #19
  20. usedtobefast

    usedtobefast Been here awhile

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    I've had a couple of 610's (which are 577cc), when everything was right it was easy to start. Valves adjusted, clean airfilter, properly jetted carb. I had no odd ritual, gas on, choke on, just past TDC as others pointed out, then a smooth full stroke (not a 2 stroke jabby kick, but get a full swing of the kick starter). After it started it would need choke for 30-45 seconds. Thats when I knew I had the air/fuel screw and pilot jet right ... needs choke to start, off choke in 30-45 seconds. I also ran my idle a wee bit higher than spec.

    If your valve condition or clearances are off you are fighting a losing battle. Do you know the condition of the valves?
    For the air filter to hurt things it had to be pretty clogged.

    Is your carb clean? If you aren't 100% sure your pilot jet is clean, again, fighting a losing battle.

    To sort out an unknown bike ... I would do gas on, choke on, 10 kicks. Then sniff the exhaust pipe. If heavy gas smell, then choke off, and give it 5 more kicks. Sniff exhaust again. Pull plug to see if it is wet.
    If the choke is getting it too much gas, but it will not start with choke off, then try choke off and turning the idle up ... 1/2 turn, 5 kicks ... 1/2 turn, 5 kicks ... but I would not go more than 2 turns above normal idle.
    All this will not be your normal routine but sorting out what you setup needs to start easy enough.

    Once it is running go through the steps to set the air/fuel screw and idle ... do you have a manual that has that? I can't remember the details, but something like, bike running, you set the idle a bit high, slowly turn the air/fuel screw out until the idle changes, make a note of how many turns out that is, lets say it is 3.5, then slowly turn it in, idle will pick back up, keep slowly going in, idle will change, make a note, lets say that is 2.5 out, so then go back to 3 out and that should be the right setting, then adjust your idle screw back to normal idle that you like.
    #20