Beta EVO Thread

Discussion in 'Trials' started by garrett, Sep 6, 2014.

  1. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 49 years Supporter

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    I have been impressed by Betas of the last 5 years. The clutch used to be sub optimal, but that has been fixed. The later motors have more inertia, and great power in the 300 Factory and correctly mellow power in the 250 and 200. The handling, in my opinion, is second to none. Stable and tight carving. Ever time I get on one I think, this handling is a little superior to my GasGas in the stable feel during slightly-leaned turns.

    The biggest complaints seem to be about plastic durability and replacement expense. A two-piece front fender assembly, aluminum for the brace, a fender, and two dinky screws, is just better overall. That in-molded one-piece plastic was theoretically a good idea, but low modulus and strength materials for braces is not a good idea. Not sure what's up with the rear fender. It is fashionably angular, and some report, too easy to break.

    I saw a GasGas crash bad last weekend in my class on a big step. The rider held power on and flipped it in the air. The bike landed upside down hard on the rock, directly on the fold of a FULLY FOLDER OVER rear fender. The fender straightened and you could not tell it had folded so radically. No breakage. Amazing. That is how durable rear fenders ideally should be.

    But these are details. The Beta is a truly excellent bike.
    #41
  2. Gordy

    Gordy SUPPORTER

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    Garrett,

    This is what I have found to work good in my Beta tranny and the clutch feels great.

    [​IMG]
    #42
  3. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 49 years Supporter

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    That looks similar to the Fuchs Silkolene light gear oil. The full synthetic stuff with a good additive package really does make a difference that can be felt in clutch behavior and shifting smoothness.

    Note the "4T" on the bottle. That particular oil is targeted - or perhaps just marketed - as a 4-cycle motor oil. Not that it makes much difference. The base is synthetic in both synthetic motor and gear oils. There might be some differences in additive packages. The motor oils will have the usual sodium or other additives for wear abatement. When you see SAE numbers that low that is for motor oil. The higher numbers are for gear oil. SAE system is unfortunately an odd system. Here is the crossover regarding viscosity:

    [​IMG]
    #43
  4. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    Nice pick Gordy, at least Castrol is honest about their oils.
    "Castrol does not recommend using passenger car motor oils like Castrol GTX in motorcycles. In 1996 the American Petroleum
    Institute (API) upgraded the performance standards of motor oil from SG to SJ (currently SN). This upgrade impacted the friction modifiers and zinc and phosphorus levels to address the fuel economy, catalytic converter and emissions issues of passenger cars. For motorcycles, the additional friction modifiers can affect wet clutch performance, and these engines typically require a higher level of the anti-wear additives (zinc and phosphorus).
    Passenger car oils use friction modifying additives to reduce friction in specific areas of the engine such as the valve train and piston ring/cylinder. Friction modifiers react with metals forming a molecular layer that reduces friction between moving surfaces. In a typical motorcycle engine with an oil immersed clutch (wet clutch), friction modifiers may be absorbed on the clutch plates rather than on the metal surfaces. This can reduce the friction coefficient of the clutch
    plates and as a result the clutch will start slipping causing a loss of
    power transfer to the back wheel, overheating and increased wear."
    #44
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  5. garrett

    garrett Been here awhile

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    Hi Guys
    Thanks for the info. I'll look around for the castrol synthetic, never seen it till now.
    Garrett
    #45
  6. Gordy

    Gordy SUPPORTER

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    I get it at Cycle Gear but have also had to get some shipped from Amazon.
    It's a little pricey, but thankfully we only need about half a bottle/change and it can be done in about 5 minutes.
    #46
  7. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 49 years Supporter

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    Interesting quote on additives, line. That's one of the best descriptions of the role of zinc and phosphorous (I said sodium erroneously) that I have seen. It also shows the effect of other considerations on additive packages, such as reducing some good stuff for engines to reduce effects on such things as catalytic converters.

    The term 'additive package' is a chemist's witches brew of things added to oil that can't be seen by us mortals.

    Here is more on zinc-phosphorus in motor oils:

    http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/training-center/articles/zinc-in-motor-oil/

    More on EP (extreme pressure) additives in gear oils:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_pressure_additive

    Wiki shows phoshates as EP additives.

    Wet clutches in trials bikes aren't particularly picky about additives. The proof is how a wide variety of oils work fine with no problems. I was particulalry un-anal about oils for a long time, then picked up a wee bit of anality when the Silkolene Light gear lube had a noticeable positive improvement over these oils I was experimenting with:

    [​IMG]

    Now I pay the added bucks for the Silkolene. The Castrol needs experimenting with.

    I was previously focusing more on the base stock and its viscosity. After the Silkoleve experience, I started paying attention to additive packages as well, and that gets tricky, because we don't really know what is in oils. All we can go by is how well they work, and that in turn gets tricky when they work well, and it gets hard to distinguish one from another.

    So just as with my thread having fun with when squish doesn't matter, I view oil the same way. Fun, complex stuff it is, and whatever works....
    #47
  8. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    Funny thing Chris is originally Gas Gas USA recommended Mobile one, it was around 97 or so when they said no more. Because the friction material started to come off the plates.
    #48
  9. nmtrialsguy

    nmtrialsguy Been here awhile Super Supporter

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    Oooh, an oil thread! :rofl
    #49
  10. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 49 years Supporter

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    That was like 18 years ago and it wasn't an issue with oil, but with plates.
    #50
  11. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    Been to the Bikes -> Beta thread, trials central?

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
    #51
  12. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    But the factory blamed the oil, that`s the same time span as the energy saving additives were slid in.
    #52
  13. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 49 years Supporter

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    Good to know that history.

    The energy saving aspect has been mostly lower oil viscosity so all the moving parts don't have the whir through thicker oil. Making up for lower viscosity and film strength could be via additives to create friction barriers.

    Friction plates are a complex derivation of paper or cork with binders and other stuff, processed just so. The oil didn't change after changing, yet the problems went away, so it is logical to assume the clutch plate material changed, and certain persons could not own the problem because, perhaps, they were tribal/ego types. It's better customer service and confidence to own up to a problem. While that may be painful in the short term, it will remove fuel from worriers, shortly and long after a problem no longer exists.
    #53
  14. I've always just used Motul Transoil 10w40, since it's what the manual recommends... you can buy it online from betausa.com.

    I miss my '13 Evo 300... should have kept it. Put 130 hours on it in one season! Aside from needing a carb clean at the end of that, and some self inflicted dragging clutch issues, it was pretty flawless.
    #54
  15. SigPig

    SigPig Been here awhile

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    I use the motul transoil as well. Haven't had any problems yet.
    #55
  16. alpineboard

    alpineboard Been here awhile

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    My 6 months are up, got 130 hrs on the Beta 300 2016. Have been using
    the Motul transoil 10w40 as recommended. Runs fine, but have nothing to compare it with. Was thinking of trying an ATF or Silkolene Light gear oil to see if I notice anything different. Have been changing the Motul every 20 hours, If using ATF , change every 10 hrs? Silkolene 20 hours?

    From Fuchs:

    Use SILKOLENE GEAR OIL LIGHT where SAE 10W-


    40 (Crankcase), SAE 75W or SAE 80W (Gearbox) oil

    is specified.

    So using this gear oil is OK at the crank? and it shifts better even though it has higher viscosity?

    Ok, I put the ATF in and started it up, it felt snappier, quicker throttle response off of idle, more fluid feeling bike. I like it. Feels like a whole new bike.
    I have read the threads on it, but I need to ask, what is the bottom line on using ATF? Are there any adverse effects with using it, ex: clutch plates, keep rpms down or at least not long durations at high rpm. That is how I ride any way.
    just change it often, 5 minute job, easy. thanks
    #56
  17. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 49 years Supporter

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    ATF works, and there is no one ATF, but rather many. Some are thicker, some are thinner. Some are mineral based, and some are synthetics. It's not so simple other than if it perceived to work well for your application.

    Yes to the shifting part with thicker oils. The oil gets hot and then thinner.

    As for crank bearings, oil diluted in gasoline is really quite thin. Beta may lube crank bearings fro premix, not from the gearbox. GasGas Pro may be the only band that lubes crank bearings from the thicker transmission oil.
    #57
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  18. alpineboard

    alpineboard Been here awhile

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    Using walmart dexton 3 or dextron 2 equivalent non synthetic from word of mouth with no problems for years,
    wiki states all ATF has friction modifiers/ additives except for type F and type G,
    How ever, from reading the forums here, the additives can build up on clutch plates and make them slip, but not for Trials clutch plates.
    If using Type F, it may be more heat sensitive and inconsistent due to this. But then ask, how is the bike being ridden. Im in first gear idling around for an hour, with an occasional blip, with an end of ride 1/8 mile rpm clean out.

    Beta may lube crank bearings from premix, very good question.

    I do like the feel of the clutch, after full warm up, it feels like it engages more quickly and stronger. Im able to pop the front wheel up in the air using the cluch, with more confidence.

    And definitely change the ATF at a max of 10 hours, maybe less depending on use.

    I see on wiki ATF, that "type A" ATF is a 50/50 combo of Dextron3 and type F
    #58
  19. Ontario GS

    Ontario GS Budding Adv. Traveler

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    I have a 2015 Beta 250 EVO which I'm getting a "rattle or clacking sound" when the bike free wheels. It's almost as if there is slack in the transmission gears that slap back and forth when there is no load on the tranny. I pulled the clutch cover today and the clutch bolts are tight and there appears to be no slack when I turn the clutch. Any thoughts?
    #59
  20. EnduroAmerica

    EnduroAmerica YouTube.com/enduroamerica

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    Just did the first (3 hour) oil change on my 2016 EVO 300 4T. Used amsoil as it was the same spec as the liquimoly that is recommended by beta in the manual. I started the bike and ran it until the fan came on, drained and tipped and drained and let sit, tipped and drained some more pulled the lower screen and repeated as well as the oil filter. I measured the exact amount that beta lists in the manual which is 900ML. Started the bike and let it warm up and sit for a minute. The level was high, I have a large syringe that I sucked about 180ML back out to get to the proper level according to the sight glass. Started and ran till the fan came on and let sit and it was the same level until now. It is still a tad on the higher side as you can see from the photo but within spec.
    Is it possible that the manufacturer listed the capacity incorrectly or am I doing something wrong?
    IMG_20161013_113718.jpg
    #60