Beyond blanking plates: canisterectomy, questions & pics

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by jhank, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

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    And it turns out I don't have to. Apparently when the PO's dealer installed the Akros and jet kit, the can-ectomy was done also.
    My seller / previous owner may not have realized it was done; IIRC he was fuzzy on this part.
    #21
  2. drwet

    drwet Adventurer

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    Apr 18, 2004
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    36
    Its not that bad. I did mine a few weeks ago and the results were better than I ever could have imagined. Maybe the fact that I put up with hard starting, stalling, bad idle, and even worse mileage for months before I finally did the canisterectomy made it seem easier. Seriously, take your time, make some notes as it comes apart, and everything is pretty obvious once you see all the parts come off. I made block-off plates and put them on with silicone (after painting them semi-gloss black to match the engine). I also removed the brass vacuum fittings (four of them) and replaced them with M6 bolts. (I had some KTM bolts in stock from my track supplies and just cut them to length.) After I had the job done, I realized it would have been a good idea to leave two of them in to synch the carbs in the future. I will put them back next time I have the bike apart.

    The biggest problem I had was the fact that one of the brass fittings twisted off when I put a wrench on it. Of course it wasn't the one that is easy to get at. It took me about two hours with an easy-out in a pair of vice-grips to get the remains of the brass fitting out.

    And you CAN get the SAS fitting off the front cylinder without draining the oil from the oil tank. If you unbolt enough stuff you can move the tank over enough to get on the bolts with a 1/4 drive socket and a universal joint. Just have patience and stay with it and you'll get there. Its much easier to put the blanking plate on than it is to remove the SAS fitting.

    Bottom line is: I love the bike again, and the dealer is glad to see me again 'cause I'm not always whining about the bike.
    #22
  3. azdrhill

    azdrhill AZ offroad rider

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    :evil This shows the oil tank and the radiator unbolted and moved forward to provide access to the bolts.:clap
    #23
  4. azdrhill

    azdrhill AZ offroad rider

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    I used the reed valves to seal the mess like CJ did.:norton
    BTW - I cut about a mm off the lower bolt because it ran into the water pump hose in front of it coming out (the last turn of the bolt was smashing the head into the hose). I had to have my twelve year old daughter start the lower bolt - my big fat fingers just couldn't do it. I felt better when it took her ten minutes to get it started. :lol3
    #24
  5. azdrhill

    azdrhill AZ offroad rider

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    The rear plate is a breeze to install after the evil front has been dispatched.
    CJ's blanking plates look mighty nice. :evil
    #25
  6. Hank.SD

    Hank.SD Jet Measurer

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    This thread is a great resource. As soon as it's too cold to ride I'll be performing this surgery on my 06. Just to clarify:

    You cap the left side carb vents and leave hoses on the right side vents, running them to a convenient place for future carb syncing. These hoses need to be capped or somehow sealed. (I'm thinking a cap screw with the threads cut off, leaving only the head and smooth shank stuck in the end with a hose clamp).

    Sorry if I'm asking about something that is obvious, but it can be a little hard to follow without seeing it first hand.

    Thanks
    Jason


    #26
  7. wshoc840

    wshoc840 Been here awhile

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    Damn...that would be easy to get to. Then you can't wine when you loose the top of you Knuckle. I found the easiest way to do it was to first remove the hose, then you have enough room to get the wrench in there, then little by little you can get it off, without doing what you did. I have to say it can be done, but I have small fingers and patience. Nice pictures though to help others out. CJracer put together a kit for me to use with all the necessary screws and plugs and nuts and blanking plates.

    By the way, azdrhill, who made your bash plate?

    here is a diagram of what to do under the airbox...I h0pe I have this correct:

    [​IMG]

    Then this is how I plugged the hole in the back of the airbox:

    [​IMG]
    #27
  8. TomTom63

    TomTom63 Motorradfahrer

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    That's exactly what I did on my '06. Make sure the sync hoses are of same lenght...

    Nice pictorial, bmwgsbill
    #28
  9. bobhclark

    bobhclark Adventurer

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    Nov 13, 2005
    Oddometer:
    39
    I was going to do this a year ago but chickened out. With a little more courage and the help here this job is not too hard. I did a few variations:

    I removed the five screws attaching the oil tank and radiator - did not loosen or undo any tube connections. I was able to get the 8mm socket, hex extension, and handle from the KTM tool set in position to remove / replace the lower flange screw. I got the upper screw with the 8mm end wrench. I dropped and for 20 minutes lost the upper screw. I found it behind the battery.

    The idle adjusting tail comes right out with the carbs once you pop out the air box grommet.

    I still have to do the valve clearance check / adjustment and head nut replacement. I'm gonna do the clutch rod replacement and water pump rebuild as well this go round, so it will be awhile before I get to see how well the ectomies help.

    Thanks again for the info.

    Bob
    04 950 Adv
    #29
  10. MookieBlaylock

    MookieBlaylock Long timer

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    vacume lines. carb vents underneath carbs
    #30
  11. jsrider

    jsrider Long timer

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    Before you started the job, one of the hoses was attached to a long tab on the bottom rear of the airbox. After the job it can be capped in the same way. The knurled metal plug that you're supposed to unplug to drain fuel from your canister can now be used to cap the other hose.
    #31
  12. NothingClever

    NothingClever Dirt Winger

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    Hey gents,

    I just got 'home' (i.e., back on US soil but not in my garage or on my computer) from a brief culinary vacation in Afghanistan where I dined on flat bread and goat meat for a couple a weeks. I returned to where I had left my bike to find it had taken a nap while I was out of town (blown over from the Kansas wind).

    Not only did my oil decide to migrate to the airbox but I expertly forgot to turn off my petcock which resulted in an exemplary case of hydrolock (probably happened even before the bike blew over).

    I used the 6th gear technique to break the lock but my oil reservoir was so full of gas and it was running like crap from oil in the airbox that I had to get the bike torn apart for a clean up.

    Not really a big deal except that I just did major services 882.3 miles ago.....grrrrrrr.

    Anyways, I need a hand with something if'n you guys can accomodate.

    My dealer performed the cannisterectomy when I bought the bike. He removed everything and installed blanking plates but left the vacuum valve pictured below (photo credits to the OP) installed on the underside of the airbox.

    CURRENT VACUUM CONFIGURATION:

    The rear left intake vent is open via a standard hose.

    The front left intake vent is still connected to the vacuum valve.

    Both right side intake vents are capped.

    Since the bike was running fine, I have always opted to leave the vacuum valve and intake vents alone.

    However, on re-assemble after cleaning everything up, I accidentally ripped the vertical rubber tube shown below, the one that comes up through the airbox to receive the carb vent 'Y' fitting.

    Connecting the white plastic 'y' tube from the carb vents is moot since the rip in the rubber tube is above the floor of the airbox.

    Sooooooooo, of course now I want to go ahead and simply ditch the vacuum valve.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My proposal is to remove the vacuum valve and cap all the vacuum lines as per everybody else's configuration here in the Crush.

    Here are my 2 questions:

    1) If I cap the left rear intake vent, will that force me to change my current carb set up? Should I simply leave well enough alone and leave that one intake vented?

    2) If I run a hose from the Y fitting straight down through the airbox without the restriction of the vacuum valve, does that pose a danger of venting fuel straight to a hot engine? (Every time I've pulled the carbs off, the carb vent lines have been 'charged' so that's why I'm wondering if I need to run around town trying to rig a little air filter evaporator like Lord Flanny did).

    Thanks gents for the help....being on the road (or off the road in my case) away from my garage is a bit of inconvenience. I've got to get up and running and don't have time to start fiddling with my carb. By the same token, I don't want to have to take the tank off again to mess with things. I'd like to button 'er up and get back home.

    Thanks again!
    #32
  13. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    ?1) both of those brass nipples need to be caped one way or another. I plugged one side w/a 6mm bolt, the other I left a length of hose same as the other intake for carb sync in the future. Those hoses need to be capped though. Use the knurled one for one side, For the time being just stick the other one on the metal stick where it was stock.

    2) Just run a 2" length of hose (5/16 works), if I remember correctly, down. I've dumbed my bike plenty of time and it has not started on fire yet.:D

    Where the valve bolted up under the box. Get some 6mm nuts and use the bolts and Alum. washers that are on there stock to keep those holes plugged up. Just a thought.

    Does that make sense?

    Good luck :thumb , and glad you're back safe. :clap
    #33
  14. NothingClever

    NothingClever Dirt Winger

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    You rock, brother.

    So, you don't think closing the one open vacuum line will force me to fiddle with the carbs?
    #34
  15. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    If it was tuned w/ that line off/open/unplugged, it was a bad setup to begin w/. I could suck dirt into you motor, it is a vacuum line. NOT good. Close everything up and run it. It sucks, but there is only one way to find out for sure. :ricky
    #35
  16. NothingClever

    NothingClever Dirt Winger

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    Dude, you're awesome. I'm going to recommend you for Deputy Back Fence Watcher at the next annual AdvRider Forum Awards :lol3 .

    Thanks a ton :thumb !!
    #36
  17. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    None of the vacuum lines should be vented (if I understand your description). Plug the left side, and run hoses off the right side (if you don't already have them) and plug them for future use in syncing the carbs.

    You can do all kinds of things with those vents, butt I have found going back to the original configuration (as in the '03's and early '04's) with individual vents for each float bowl directly out the bottom of the airbox as in this Tech Bulletin TB0309
    works the best for me. I haven't imolated myself or my beloved Lippizanner yet, butt no guarrantee's you won't. This method does allow the bike to run it's best without a lot of effort or added complexity to your bike and was good enough for the Works Rally Bikes. Butt, I'm a back to basics type guy. YMMV, of course.
    More info at:
    http://www.ktm950.info/how/canisterectomy/canisterectomy.html
    #37
  18. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    Oooops, doubled with CJ. Sorry 'bout dat bro' :freaky
    #38
  19. NothingClever

    NothingClever Dirt Winger

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    Yep, that's the configuration I set up this afternoon. For the life of me, I haven't been able to figure out why the dealer set me up with fresh, unfiltered air between carburetion and combustion. I'm new to carbs but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that doesn't make much sense. It did, nonetheless, run superbly up to 14k feet over the summer with the old configuration.

    Unfortunately, going to the BTB set up has rendered the carb set up ineffective now. Hopefully I don't need to re-jet. My screws WERE at 2.25 front and 2.75 rear but the bike was way rich on fuel so I dialed the front one out to 2.5 and left the rear at 2.75. A little better but still no cigar. I'm not sure how much more I can dial the screws out....I've never heard of anybody going all the way to 3 before.

    I used the existing Y and ran a single 5/16" - 7,9mm fuel line straight south and fashioned a plug. I don't know why I was befuddled with that one. Must be scared since I'm not surrounded with my woobie garage.

    And roger, the HOW is looking great. Thank you for taking the time to collect the wisdom and put it somewhere easily reviewed. Maybe I can contribute during my year chasing goats.
    #39
  20. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    Where is the plug you talk about above? Not in the vent line I hope :huh
    #40