Beyond blanking plates: canisterectomy, questions & pics

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by jhank, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. NothingClever

    NothingClever Dirt Winger

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,115
    Location:
    Colorado & Colombia
    The plug I made replaces the knurled nut plug that used to be on the old carb vent drain hose, the one that ran south from the vacuum valve.

    Hmmmm....maybe I just stumbled over why I'm struggling to get more air in my carbs.

    Guess I'll give that a shot in the morning when I get back to the bike.

    Thanks again, CP.
    #41
  2. Monty_Burns

    Monty_Burns Excellent.

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,281
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois

    With that setup - plugged carb vent lines - you should have had surging or a wandering idle. I made a overly complex drain line and filter assembly to hook into the Y adaptor. It is pretty good, but I'm going with CP's 250mm and 275mm vents when I tear her apart for winter. My setup isn't quite perfect yet. Idle wanders but only by 100 rpm high it seems.

    Hmmm... actually - you should have been fuel starved when the throttle was open. With the vent lines plugged, the diaphrams wouldn't have pulled the needles as far as they should for the given manifold vacuum and air flow. I don't have a guess what the affect on the float blows would have been, though.

    Maybe plug your vac leaks, correctly vent the carbs, and get your mixture screws back to stock and start from there. I didn't have to touch my mixture (FMF Q's, 700 ft. ASL, all jets stock, 3rd clip w/ shims as factory)

    Also, there is a barb on that back right of the air cleaner assembly. Leave the tube fittings installed on the right side of the intake passages and run 2 lengths of hose back to the barb. Shove one line on the barb and plug the other one with an aluminum rivet - not a pop rivet. Use some of your leftover hose clamps to secure the one hose to the barb and the rivet in the free hose. Zip tie the free hose to the one on the barb. Makes for easier carb sync checks. :D
    #42
  3. NothingClever

    NothingClever Dirt Winger

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,115
    Location:
    Colorado & Colombia
    Ditched the plug....bike runs normal again. Normal = raped ape.

    Despite all the fiddling it takes to pull the carbs, this bike is a pleasure to work on. I'm glad it's commonly viewed as a PITA because that means a lot of people who bought a 950 will get rid of it after it collects dust in the garage. That means more pristine 950s for me in the future. I hope to keep a 950 or two in the inventory much like fanatics have collected TransAlps and the like over the years.

    Mission complete on that.

    Orange Crush rules. Thanks to cjracer, cpmodem and no_bmw for all the great help. You guys are, on the average, about $300 cheaper than a dealer :thumb.
    #43
  4. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,130
    Location:
    masa yee yah tee 59° 14' 9" N / 135° 26' 42" W
    Glad it worked out well for you, brother.
    :clap
    #44
  5. yamvert

    yamvert Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Oddometer:
    29
    Location:
    Arlington, WA
    I'm not sure if this has been covered in the canisterectomy threads, EPC, Electronic Power Control, removal? Are the hoses on the carb tops/slide covers vents or what. I read on KTM HOW they plugged these. Does any one have a comment.
    #45
  6. ratmunch

    ratmunch jackass extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    98
    Location:
    epicenter of hell
    I like how different manufacturers do the same things, but a bit differently. I had this same type of system on my Triumph, but it was seemingly less difficult to remove and had a lot less in hosery than on a KTM. I even took the reed valves out and saved all of the stock parts JUST IN CASE, the EPA nazi's come a knockin and had similar blanking plates made. The one thing I didn't see mentioned and maybe different on the KTM is once the SAS or SAI as I am used to calling it is removed did you get a check engine light or error light?? I had to actually have an Australian map loaded into my Triumph that did not recogize the SAI or SAS on my bike or the engine error light would keep going on. Another benefit to removing it is for tuning purposes with a dyno and tuneboy. It is great to see in advance what I will be doing when I get my KTM, thanks for the post and pictures.

    RM
    #46
  7. Hank.SD

    Hank.SD Jet Measurer

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,388
    Location:
    Sodak
    #47
  8. KTMarty

    KTMarty Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Oddometer:
    353
    Location:
    Renton,WA
    Could not find anything about the hose that goes between the two tanks. Does it stay the same or ?

    Attached Files:

    #48
  9. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,130
    Location:
    masa yee yah tee 59° 14' 9" N / 135° 26' 42" W
    Leave it. It's a TB (0741) by KTM in an effort to avoid over pressurization of one tank forcing liquid fuel into the canister. Won't hurt anything.
    It's covered in the HOW
    #49
  10. KTMarty

    KTMarty Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Oddometer:
    353
    Location:
    Renton,WA
    Thanks for the fast repy.

    Here is what I did to get the front Cylinder SAS off without removing the raditor hoses.

    1) Loosen the radiator bolts
    2) Took off the oil tank ( Change the oil anyway.)
    3) put a tire wrench in between the pipe and oil hose. The hose is on really good and not worth trying to get off. Anyway the hose goes over a long fitting which still would be in the way. By using the tire wrench it gave me just enough clearance to remove the bolt in back.
    4) Slowly worked the nut off with an open end wrench.

    Pictures tell more then I can write.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    SAS removed
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #50
  11. Head2Wind

    Head2Wind MotorcycleMayhem

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,701
    Location:
    NorthWet Washington
    remove the bolts holding the oil tank and the radiator, pry the tank forward; with the tip of the bar on the hose/tube. Get to the bolt with a 6" 1/4 drive extension.

    [​IMG]

    and then this

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and then


    [​IMG]
    #51
  12. KTMarty

    KTMarty Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Oddometer:
    353
    Location:
    Renton,WA
    Where were these pictures hiding when I needed them?

    More tips the better.
    #52
  13. Hank.SD

    Hank.SD Jet Measurer

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,388
    Location:
    Sodak
    Here are my $.02, hopefully they can help someone.

    Not sure if it's luck or just my striking good looks, but I was able to remove the front SAS plate without loosening anything. I'm guessing maybe everyone who has trouble doesn't have carbs/airbox out. I did as I'm installing the H2W jet kit and dumping the canister at the same time.

    I used the longer wrench, which has a pretty good angle on the box end.

    [​IMG]

    No problem getting access and enough throw top side.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    The hardest part was getting the bolts started when putting on the blanking plates, but I was able to do it with a bit of patience.

    [​IMG]

    When sealing up the extra airbox hole, I used a bit of this Devcon stuff and a small piece of nylon screen as a substrate.

    [​IMG]

    I roughed up the area around the offending hole with some emery and covered it with a small piece of screen

    [​IMG]

    and schlucked up the top and bottom with the Devcon Plastic weld.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    So far so good. Hope to have it all buttoned back up tomorrow.
    #53
  14. Hank.SD

    Hank.SD Jet Measurer

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,388
    Location:
    Sodak
    Here is my version of the tank vent routing.

    I can see I need to add a couple straight connectors where the tubing exits the inside plastic to make future disassembly easier.

    On the right side I used an existing hole and the existing clip:

    [​IMG]

    Then I routed across the upper subframe, cable tying in the center, also making sure it was all well clear of the forks etc lock to lock. I will add one straight connector here to make disassembly easier.

    [​IMG]

    I put the T just inside the left upper fairing. Again a couple straight connectors will be added.

    [​IMG]

    I drilled three holes in the left side inner plastic:

    [​IMG]

    and routed the left side as so. I put a small fuel filter inside the left fairing. This is where the canister used to sit.

    [​IMG]

    I then ran it down along the left side of the radiator. A straight connector will be added just where it exits the plastic.

    Down into the bash plate.

    [​IMG]

    and routed it behind the rectifier as such:

    [​IMG]

    Now we've all seen it before, but it sure is nice to have this mess of sh!t lying on the shop floor rather than all over the bike. :thumb

    [​IMG]
    #54
  15. tr6

    tr6 Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Oddometer:
    184
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    i've already removed my sas valve and the evap. cannister.
    i'm not removing my airbox and carbs.
    my bike is an 06 but doesn't have the epc's although i thought 06's did. lucky there i guess.
    i don't have a lot left and some of the the things i've seen others had to plug and cap i don't have luckily.
    the only lines i have left are these.
    (1) 1/4 line coming off the front cylinder head that IS connected to the bottom rear of the airbox
    (2) 1/4" line coming off rear cylinder head that WAS connected to the evap. cannister.
    (3) 1/4" line coming off oppisite side or rear cylinder head, about 10 inches long.
    (4) A T fitting just in front of #2 above.
    * It goes to the vent on top of fuel tank by handle bars.
    *Underneath the airbox. I'm guessing to the front cylinder head.
    *Was connected to the evap. cannister.

    I know some lines need to be left at same length not sure which.
    #55
  16. wreckinshop

    wreckinshop super enduro

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Oddometer:
    55
    Location:
    henderson,nevada
    Its the 2 lines on the right side of the bike need to be left the same length and the 2 on the left side need to be removed and either cap the brass fittings with vacum caps or remove the fittings and replace them with bolts and a brass washer.Some say the vacum caps will dry rot but you have many miles to go before that happens.
    #56
  17. tr6

    tr6 Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Oddometer:
    184
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    stupid question but the right side is the water pump side?
    also i found another line. any idea what the silver thing does in this pic, it sits under the airbox right between the carbs. i stole the pic from anothers post. i'm just plugging it off

    Attached Files:

    #57
  18. MookieBlaylock

    MookieBlaylock Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,584
    Location:
    IntheeaglewingpalaceoftheQueenChinee
    you probably know this but a good way to set it up so you can easily check carb synch later is to clip and cap off the vacume line that comes off the left side of each intake (the ones in the guys hand in picture are the right i think) and then on the opposite side of each intake leave those lines in place and run to the back of the airbox and seal off obviously. The thing in the picture is part of the evap canister system and typically gets tossed and the 2 lines that T into one under the carbs in the airbox are the carb vents and this line gets clipped an inch under the box after exiting where that device was
    #58
  19. tr6

    tr6 Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Oddometer:
    184
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    My silver thing has to stay since i'm not removing the airbox and can't get to it remove it. Hopefully my carb vents still work properly.
    #59
  20. DakarNick

    DakarNick Swabee

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    9,131
    Location:
    Colorado
    I know, I should let sleeping dogs lie, but...

    On the float bowl vents T-ing under the carbs in the airbox. Why is T-ing them ok and why does the TSB say to make them 275 mm/250 mm and run the separate?

    Mine is T-ed, and I ran a hose to the skid plate instead of clipping it an inch under the airbox.

    Also, the right side vacuum lines are still there but have been plugged for future carb synching.
    #60