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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ThatOtherGuy, Oct 12, 2011.
I see them surprisingly often around Seattle urban areas, and trails.
Considering the density of commuters and bicycles in that area; I don't doubt that at all. The only time I see them in N.C. is on the bike share program bikes in dense urban areas and on the wall display of antique bikes in some of the local bike shops. I honestly could not tell you the last time I saw one out in the wild that wasn't on a kids bike and that includes a bunch of bike rodeo wrenching sessions.
I think there's a lot more diversity in bikes here because of the weather. Rim brakes are particularly problematic for transportation cyclists due to the wet weather. For that reason I won't even consider a bike that doesn't have disc, or alternative brakes.
Works quite well for the intended use, but I wouldn’t coast down at 45 mph on it...
True for the performance of the brake itself taking into account the weight differences. Not taking into account the physics of the vehicles or rider performance.
Not true. The motorcycles lower centre of gravity means the motorcycle can obtain greater stopping forces before a 'stoppie' occurs compared to that of the bicycle.
Practical experience. I know I can stop faster and safer on my motorcycles compared to my bicycles. On my bicycles the disks brakes vs rim brakes make a little difference at emergency stopping, both are capable of providing 'stoppies' the disk brakes provide greater feel so therefore better control.
I'm not a physicist or mathematician, but even the very best brakes on a bicycle are limited by the contact patch and the weight of the rider in high speed (45mph) emergency or panic stops. The momentum of a rider that might be 6 or 7 times the weight of the bicycle increases the likelihood of a bad ending. Given a choice, I would rather hit a dear on a 600 lb. motorcycle at 45 mph than on a bicycle.
Not sure why but it seems that every bicyclist riding a bike that costs more than a few hundred dollars is smarter and a better rider than any motorcyclist, and of course any one on a Walmart bike couldn't possible be a serious cyclist no matter how many miles they rode.
As for the NC statutes. I've not visited here in a while and when this thread showed up at the top of the page I went back to read what I had missed. I was not quoting statutes in direct response to your particular encounter, just to complete the "overtaking" statutes you had posted.
Bicyclists always quote the statutes that seem to back up their viewpoint. The part I highlighted is the part they don't want to quote, in fact it always brings out the "when practicable" argument, but really it flies in the face of the most common bicyclists argument which is, they have full rights on the road. The exception of course is when it comes to sharing. Sharing is the responsibility of every one else. They always give reasons why they don't have to "give way to the right in favor of the overtaking vehicle", apparently it only applies to every other vehicle on the road.
As for audible signal, you and I are both well aware that some cyclist's organizations try to discourage motorists from using their horn, and sometimes make ridicules claims like, a horn might scare the cyclist and cause them to dart into the lane or some other nonsense, but if I don't sound my horn and the passing move goes badly then I can be faulted for not giving audible signal. If there is any doubt about my intentions to overtake being known by a cyclist, (or any other vehicle, dog , duck, or deer, etc. on the road) I give audible signal.
I haven't had any bad experiences lately with bicycles, most of my encounters have been when on a motorcycle on back roads and that is always easier than when in a cage. In most cases it seems bicyclists are more willing to give way to a motorcycle than an automobile. Explain that.
You guys do realize that I ride both bicycles AND motorcycles right?
Yes, that’s me...
Personally I think the differences in dynamics between a bicycle, and motorcycle make it a pretty pointless comparison regarding safety, and the original point of contention that brought it up was a red herring.
My current land speed record on bicycle was 54.19mph downhill on a bike with rim brakes. That was fun.
As for Center-Stand's comment about sounding a horn, when people do that it startles the shit out of me. Don't do it. See also: dogs barking out of car windows, people yelling, etc.
Won't comment on people yelling and dogs barking, but sounding the horn could be argued as required for a legal overtaking. Certainly any one not sounding a horn and being involved in an accident while overtaking would be subject to liability by the injured's lawyer. The law clearly provides for, if not requires, the notification of overtaking another vehicle.
Should we ask that fire, police, and ambulances also turn off their noise makers. Any vehicle operator that might lose control of their vehicle because of a horn, probably should not be on the public roadways.
In the USA honking is often perceived as meaning "Get the hell out of my way" or "FU". Not being a "Get the hell out of my way" type of personality I couldn't tell you the last time I used the horn in a vehicle. 7 years maybe? Probably more.
In other parts of the world honking seems to be construed with little or no negative connotation.
Pretty sure the differences in reaction to the sound of a horn and culture would make an interesting paper.
Ridge I won't judge how you might ride your moto on the road, because I don't know you, but ....... I ride with a group that consists of riders with extensive track experience over a long time period. All of them can out run me on their slowest day. However, any time that racing / track experience shows up on a ride things just as quickly get more dangerous. That's a cool picture of you dragging a knee, but it doesn't necessarily make you safer than the next guy coming down the road. One might argue that the confidence you have in yourself is the reason you think you are safer in an emergency evasive move or stop going downhill at 45 mph on bicycle tires than another competent rider would be at the same speed on a comparatively equipped motorcycle.
I recall a black bear that I think was startled near a fire tower above Hot Springs. Following some other riders, there was a steep and sharp switchback. The bear came bounding down the bank just as I was exiting the sharp turn on the bottom side. Still don't know how he missed me. It was a blur of leaps and bounds just missing me on the right rear. In that case I did nothing, had no time, but I will remember it always as a near miss that has affected my riding ever since. I tell this story because it's not always how good a rider we are that get's us home, sometimes it's just dumb luck.
I would agree that the sound of a horn can mean different things. Hello, see you later, wake up, LOOK OUT, thanks, and for sure, I'm coming around. Just yesterday morning I and the car on my left pulled from a intersection where the 4 lanes of cross traffic had been red for several seconds. There was a symphony of horns being blown to an oblivious idiot who went through the red light at highway speed just as I was screeching to a stop at the median. I would guess that most who would be offended by a horn, know why the horn was used in the way it was and if they are guilty, it should be a lesson, if they are not guilty, let it go. We all make mistakes.
It is fact that some bicycle organizations actively discourage use of horns by motorists. To me it doesn't make sense whether it's a rider messing his pants or swerving inadvertently. Done properly it is appropriate information conveyed from one vehicle operator to another. For the motorist, in a worst case scenario could make a difference. For the cyclist, especially those with video it is also good information. If the horn blows and the driver is still too close or otherwise reckless it suggests the motor vehicle operator saw the rider and was cognizant of what he was doing. I don't think blowing the horn is an excuse for bad behavior.
Bicycle sales and ridership have picked way up during the Coronavirus epidemic. When we do get out on the road on our motorcycles, we might find more two wheeled friends sharing it with us.
Not only in America. Bicycle shops are having problems getting parts for all the old bikes coming in for service.
there are many wonderful places where a toodle on the horn is a friendly expression
What is a toodle?
A non agressive gesture received w/ a wave and a smile
Bicycles need to know what a stop sign is. I have no problem with them. I ride occasionally, just no spandex. It is fun to ride a bicycle. Just to all the assholes who do not STOP at crossings, you make every rider look like shit.
Or riders who when are slowing traffic flow will not simply ease over and allow a simple pass. Bicyclist, motorcyclist, whatever. Sure they all have a right to be there but a little common courtesy wouldn't be to much to ask would it.