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Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by cyclopathic, Dec 26, 2017.
I look forward to seeing the bike at EICMA this November.
Better wait till you see spy photos of it first on the web and cell phone videos of it on YouTube before you make your travel reservations to EICMA.
One is an aggressive dual sport with liquid cooling, DOHC,
the other a mellow ADV Bike with air/oil colling SOHC.
And then there is the price difference, maybe 30% or so; and the seat hieght.
Sure, a well farkled used DRZ400 has the potential to be a good ADV Bike and crush the Himalayan, I'll grant you that.
But, brand new, they are in different domains.
The DR650 competes more.
I am getting a Triumph Scrambler this weekend and I am not a "Hipster" bro. So there!
Not if you commute. I would have to leave at 2am to get to work by 5am on the "backroads" in Charlotte.
Do not dis someone for the style of motorcycle they ride. We need more motorcyclists, not less.
Looks like she will have plenty of beans.
38.35lbs of torque at 4,000rpm.
So, easily a 100 more lbs than a DR650, but with 12 more horse power.
Almost identical torque numbers.
I would take the Hima. Love that MC. 412lbs in full battle rattle.
The 650 could be closer to 475lbs. Maybe 485lbs.
Maybe it will be frugal Versys X 650 we have always posted about?
$7,999 would be amazing. DL650XT is like $9,299.
$3,500 more than the Hima. Totally doable.
Everyone makes assumption that Big Himalayan will be a twin.. what if they just put a big bore kit on existing mill?
There is a twin coming, probably not for the himma, once warranty expires someone will bore a himma.
They are not an American company, and we cannot expect a merican option there.
First rule of re is build a bike for India.
Nothing else matters, that they build bikes for other markets is a bonus. JMO
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So honestly what is choking down the Himalayan as far as engine design. I get that it is a 400 and can only do so much but even for a 400 it's anemic. What could be done aftermarket to help it besides the old adage of there is no replacement for displacement?
Himalayan is under square long stroke design with low redline, small valves and amps of low end torque. Big bore kit and better breathing (intake, throttle body, exhaust, valves, cam, etc) could make more power but at that price point it's not worth it.
I love the retro-practical side of the bike but it's not for freeways not something you would want to cross planes on loaded, going into headwind.
Imho the engines output is plenty strong enough, like a draught horse. To make a Himma go quicker on the easy ditch the center stand throw a light weight exhaust on to lose weight and make it breathe easier then toss some alloy rims on it. Sooner or later somebody will grind a next step cam for it.
Break in the engine.
This is second hand news, but a owner in the Seattle got his up to 87mph.
The way the Indian engineers set up the MC:
1. Excellent mpg.
2. 1-50mph effortlessly.
3. Very long engin life.
4. Smooth ride.
I don't have one...didn't mean to imply I did. But I am really interested by what I see. I love the way they look. I love their simplicity. That's why I am asking if we see a logical way to improve them.
But my big hang up is the obvious one and that is power. Really it comes down to this Himalayan is 25hp and 25 pounds of torque and it weighs 421lbs. The DR650 as we know is also very simple and it is producing 43.5hp and 39.8ftlbs torque and it does it at 60 pounds less...60 pounds! I don't need scads of power but let's be honest no one has ever claimed the DR had too much power. That is a big discrepancy between the two.
So I am just struggling. The DR is not ugly but she sure ain't pretty, the Himalayan looks the business. The Himalayan is lower seat height but its also lower ground clearance, which isn't a deal breaker for me. The DR is proven and the Himalayan is still very new. Both are very basic and simple. There isn't a Royal Enfield dealer within 4 hours in any direction of me and Suzuki is everywhere not that you necessarily need a dealer. Did I mention the Himalayan looks the business?
Then there is a couple of other things. On the owners thread Himalayan owners are very aggressive in their defense of the bike and are hostile if you dare ask a question. I get it they want to be sold on the machine they own. But really If you read through it there does seem to be a number of issues including someone getting a new cylinder for their bike. Lots of stalling issues, parasitic draws, broken racks. It seems like a decent amount for a bike that isn't in very many hands. But I realize that we hear an inordinate amount of negatives on forums because problems become condensed here. The last issue I have is that the Royal Enfield guys were straight up dicks to my wife and I last year at Barber.
But I am following these threads religiously because I really want to like the bike. I hope I can test ride one at some point. Until then I can only speculate.
What was it that pushed you into the bike? Was it looks? I am honestly asking because again I am drawn to the bike but admittedly I believe it is mostly because I think it is different.
Some fellas in India I was talking to who been inside the engines tell me the cylinder liner is 4.5mm thick, plenty thick enough to bore it out to 500cc and still have meat left over for a few service over bores after that .
Now all that said take a good look at the funny drilled through lump thing sticking up and out across the top front of the crancase ? Yup, looks like the same thing in the same location as the one on the 650 twin. Comparing pictures of the Himalyan and Interceptor paying close attention to the engines mount points it looks like the engines will fit either frames.
Something to think about.
I just did demo rides. Not even 20 total miles.
Not an owner.
RE built the bike from the ground up to be an South Asian ADV TOURING mount.
90%+ of their sales come from India.
I was worried about the power too, but she can do 70mph all day in ok riding conditions.
It's odd. I thought she would be a turd.
Around town, she is very refined. Better than a DR. My last MC.
Much lower COG!great turning radius.
1-50mph with the quickness.
Way stiffer suspension.
Try and set up a demo ride!
I thought the DR made 35hp and 40lns of torque.
With respect, until you actually test one could you stop saying it doesn't have enough power, or that there must be ways to improve them.
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And with respect this is exactly what I am talking about owners being defensive. Every single review talks about lack of power, every single one. I just put up data talking about my concerns while being very candid and honest. I never said that it doesn't have "enough" power, I said I am concerned about it and for good reason. I am familiar with a KLR and I am familiar with a DR. This bike weighs more and has much less power and torque. That's a fact. But if you ask for an owner to describe their real world experience or compare it to something else more common they get defensive and tell you just to ride one or go read about it somewhere else.
Its not just me either. I have seen others rebuffed as well. Go ahead and ask about any of the bikes I have and I am happy to talk about their plusses and minuses in my experience. What I won't do is tell you to pound sand or act like it is some esoteric experience that can only be gained from riding. That's just silly. Honestly the reaction is really kind of bizarre compared to how most of the riding community is.
You want me to not talk about it? That is literally what a discussion forum is for, we talk about things. The bikes cant hear us, they wont be offended I swear. If you are tired of people who are interested in the bikes asking questions then just don't respond.
I think it really depends on where/how you ride. Come to plains and you may start see eye to eye with "concerned". I have ridden into wind in eastern Alberta when 650cc 70hp bike failed to maintain 62mph/100kmh, WOT in 5th gear. Hima would have been decimated at that point.
I agree with you that if you don't live in wind country, don't travel far and don't ride A roads Himalayan has enough. However RE thinks that it needs more power for western world, what do they know?
I've not noticed Him owners being defensive. After all she is just $4,499.
The worst are NC700X owners.
Not even close. They have their own zip code.
I think the Hima can beat the MITGHTY DR in urban assaults.
Way more agile thanks to no poggo suspension. Excellent engine breaking. I was suprised how long it took for the engine to start giving off heat. Low COG. More forgiving and refined at 1-10mph.
Hell, I'd take a Hima over a stock DR on a country road outside of Bristol, TN.
The DR is the ultimate platform ADV TOURING MC. You can make her into what ever you want. Plenty are found used.
In time the Hima will slowly close the gap. If and only if RE makes updates every year.
Well who knows. I have a few rallies coming up and maybe I will see one in more detail. I know one will be at Barber but I am scared to talk to them again for fear of them souring my taste again.
By the time I get to ride one the big Himalayan may make an appearance and put my fears to rest.
Would you say the Himalayan can make it to 70 easily and stay there need be?