Big Himalayan in works?

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by cyclopathic, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,388
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.
    Not on hand this minute. You can pull the numbers of both the 535 and 650 continental GT's off of Enfields website.



    #81
  2. ex-xt

    ex-xt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Oddometer:
    204
    Location:
    FRANCE SW
    hi mates
    My point, confirmed by some mechanics, even working in a RE shop is a twin would not be interested in a trail bike , THIS type of vertical twin old fashioned especially : weight over 200, gravity center, torque .
    They also had seen, working on the motor , that all is oversized in the bottom : crankshaft and connecting rod mostly . SO , as on older XT, il would be easy to put a new piston in a modified cylinder of 500 or more.
    the result could be around 35/40 hp for a low cost, for us or RE itself !!
    #82
    cyclopathic and Eatmore Mudd like this.
  3. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,388
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.

    Oui !

    A twin in a pure trail ? :nah
    A twin in an overland adventure bike ? :D
    #83
  4. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,388
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.
    I double dare someone to photoshop the twin into the Himalayan.
    #84
  5. Richarde1605

    Richarde1605 Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Oddometer:
    3,986
    Location:
    NSW Australia
    https://goo.gl/images/Q56n8V

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    #85
  6. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,006
    They would have to do more than just blow displacement to 500cc to get to 35/40 mark:

    500/411*26= 31.6hp

    Yes bigger valves would help but it will need higher compression and slightly more aggressive cam profile to get in 35-40 territory.. just saying.

    Regardless with taller top gear even 31.6 would be enough to let it comfortably cruise at 75mph and could create a truly universal bike; the one which could take on almost any road perhaps with exception of gnarliest singletrack and german autobahn with no speed limit.
    #86
  7. Richarde1605

    Richarde1605 Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Oddometer:
    3,986
    Location:
    NSW Australia
    I wouldn't want to lose the tractor effect, nor really change the gearing much, yes mine has been past redline in top.
    I think that a nice modest valve and port job, and a little skim to bump the cr would release a few more ponies. Lets face it even 3 would be a 10% gain...

    I will look into this, but not at the expense of the bottom end

    :-)

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    #87
  8. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,006
    It's a long stroke engine they don't need to stroke it just enlarge bore 21%. That would mean 21% bigger valves but only 10% more flow if lift/duration stays the same. Of cause 10% increase in CR would give 10% increase in power but that would also necessitate changing cams to prevent detonation. Will probably need bigger throttle body to accommodate bigger displacement. All that it would be hard for them to get 10-14hp more out of 25hp engine without changing cams and lifting redline.

    With regards to gearing just put 6th or make gear gap wider you don't want to have highway speed limited by redline
    #88
  9. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,388
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.
    It's overbuilt. Look at the crank at 1.02:50 It's insanely beefy and has bigger bearings on it than the axles on my truck do.

    #89
    Dutch idiot and Richarde1605 like this.
  10. ex-xt

    ex-xt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Oddometer:
    204
    Location:
    FRANCE SW
    hi folks.
    Back from the HUBB meeting , 80% GS' types:clap
    Lot of these fellows were interested both by himmie and my tarp :-).
    I assume a big bore will improve the response and the torque, in order to get out easily of some parts off road .
    On the old XT a 560 was enough ( i had one ) but some 600 had existed too.
    #90
    Richarde1605 and Eatmore Mudd like this.
  11. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,388
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.
    In factory public release videos the head honchos have referenced the twin going to other platforms at some point and they also mentioned the Himalayan getting more power at some point too.

    In press interviews they said they wanted to and then later they said no planning to.

    I don't think they are lying to us, I think they want to do a 650 Himalayan but back pedaled on that because they REALLY do not want to fumble the ball with the Interceptor and Continental.

    The bike market in India is HUGE. Last year Indians bought 20 mllion new bikes. Dozens of smaller makers would love to sink their teeth into a piece of Enfields market share.


    Is a 650 into the Himalayan physically and mechanically possible ? I believe so. Would it sell here ? Oh hell yah !
    Take a good look at both the Himalayan and Interceptor frames mount points and engines mount points :-)



    Now look at these pics I borrowed from another post and take a look at the LS 410 gear position sensor and count the gear numbers.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    They planning something here or just using one common switch for both engines ?


    Teaser spy photos of one of the 650 twin pre production test mules in testing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    These pics are for the engine. They don't show the frame mounts real well. There's a bazillion pics of the Interceptor and Continental on the web show for that.


    Look familiar ?


    [​IMG]




    Dig the funky double front mount point.
    [​IMG]

    The Himalyan frame uses one of those holes in the funky double mount. The twin engine has the same funky double mount and the Interceptor frame uses the other hole in it. Makes ya wonder.
    #91
  12. Gustavo

    Gustavo Motociclista Errante

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,186
    Location:
    Sometimes in Hillsburrito
    #92
    Eatmore Mudd likes this.
  13. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,388
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.
    Enfield lists the Continental GT 650 as 198 Kg ( no fuel 12.5 Liter tank ) Continental GT 535 as 192 Kg ( 90% fuel, 13.5 Liter tank )
    90% fuel at .75 Kg per liter and Mr. Abacus says...... the twin should curb weigh 206 Kg or 31.8 pounds more than the 535 single at 90% fuel.

    The 650 twin comes with dual channel ABS that the single doesn't and has twice as many cylinders twice as many throttle bodies and twice as many exhausts as the 535 single. It makes 47 HP and 38 LbFt torque

    Depending on which RE publication your reading the non ABS Himalayan curb weighs is 182 Kg (90% fuel) or 194 Kg ( unspecified if that's 90% fuel, full fuel or with out without ABS, shipping weight or what) The LS 410 makes 24.5 HP and 24 LBFT torque.

    Is 58% more torque, 92% more horse power and dual channel channel ABS worth an extra 32 pounds ? ( like I don't know the answer )
    #93
  14. ex-xt

    ex-xt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Oddometer:
    204
    Location:
    FRANCE SW
    hi mates
    The trouble with himmie ? :wings
    Even if the weight is around 200 k for the twin, the price will be something like 6500 here , and th T7 Yam' maybe 8500 - I do not believe that, but a lot of "fans " say so :smile6_ and so, guys and girls in this case , as i have a him' now ( and love it) I will ride the Yam surely if I want a twin .
    NO way to compare the level of " mise au point " :crash
    #94
    Eatmore Mudd likes this.
  15. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,388
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.
    There's market opportunities in the middleweight market. Yamahas Tenere T7 is doing good in Europe.


    Yamaha Tenere 700 Specs
    Engine Type: 689cc liquid-cooled DOHC 4-stroke; 8 valves
    Bore x Stroke: 80.0mm x 68.6mm
    Compression Ratio: 11.5:1
    Fuel Delivery: Fuel Injection
    Power*: 72.4 HP (54 kW) @ 9000 rpm
    Torque*: 50.2 ft-lbs (68 Nm) @ 6500 rpm
    Transmission: 6-speed; wet multiplate clutch
    Final Drive: Chain
    Suspension/Front: 43mm inverted fork, fully-adjustable; 8.3-in travel
    Suspension/Rear: Single shock, adjustable preload (w/remote adjuster) and rebound damping; 7.9-in travel
    Brakes/Front: Dual 282mm hydraulic disc; selectable ABS
    Brakes/Rear: 245mm hydraulic disc; selectable ABS
    Tires/Front: 90/90R21 Pirelli® Scorpion® Rally STR
    Tires/Rear: 150/70R18 Pirelli® Scorpion® Rally STR
    L x W x H: TBD
    Seat Height: 34.6 in
    Wheelbase: 62.6 in
    Rake (Caster Angle): TBD
    Trail: TBD
    Maximum Ground Clearance: 9.5 in
    Fuel Capacity: 4.2 gal
    Fuel Economy: TBD
    Wet Weight*: 452 lbs (205 kg)
    Warranty: 1 Year (Limited Factory Warranty)
    Color: Ceramic Ice
    Availability: Europe in second half of 2019; USA in second half of 2020.


    Extrapolating between the Himalayan single and Interceptor, a twin cylinder Himalayan on paper should be in a similar ballpark as the T7.
    #95
  16. motrhead

    motrhead Travellin' Soul

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    529
    Location:
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Still waiting! I would buy a 650 Himalayan or Scrambler in a heartbeat!
    #96
    ex-xt and Eatmore Mudd like this.
  17. ex-xt

    ex-xt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Oddometer:
    204
    Location:
    FRANCE SW
    Me too for a 200 kg max weight. Lot of fans are riding T7 now here... and find it easy and made for big rides
    #97
    Eatmore Mudd likes this.