BMW C600 and C650

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by cabanza, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Brooktown Geezer

    Brooktown Geezer scooter guy

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    BMW has already designed side cases and a tail case for the 650 GT. I've seen pictures of them, and they're nice! The scoot is also built to accept the BMW GPS system. BMW knows touring, and farkles, and it looks like they will be offering farkling for the GT.
    #61
  2. Cortez

    Cortez BAZINGA!

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    They also "know" how to price the farkles..

    That thing will cost as much as an FJR with all the options here.
    #62
  3. gogogordy

    gogogordy Long timer

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    Indeed. Some scooters have crossed the displacement/weight/AND price line into motorcycle territory. Nice motorcycle territory.
    #63
  4. Cortez

    Cortez BAZINGA!

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    I'd gladly pay the same money I paid for my 650cc kawasaki if I was to
    get a great quality scooter that'll do at least 100mph. For the lack of
    performance I'd expect everything else to be top notch.

    The problem is, to get a scooter that's that good (think Burger 650
    or a T-max) I'd have to pay TWICE AS MUCH as I paid for my 650 twin.

    And that's just too much.
    I'm waiting for the Kymco Xciting 400i though.
    :ear
    #64
  5. Brooktown Geezer

    Brooktown Geezer scooter guy

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    I totally get that they won't be priced as a commodity (they will be positioned to be priced at the top end.)

    What I find odd is the automatic assumption that a scooter should be cheaper than a motorcycle. When you build something like a Burgman or a BMW GT, they have all the same components as a motorcycle. What is the great divide between motorcycle and scooter...the fact that the frame is made to omit the visible tank? Many of the visible tanks on motorcycles are not even tanks anymore.

    If it's a *nice* scooter, and it's priced in *nice* motorcycle territory, what's the difference? It seems almost as if even scooterists can't see the value in scooters. I think it may be because so many of us scooterists started riding scoots that were at the bottom end of the spectrum, we still see all scooters as cheap.

    If I wanted a 650 motorcycle, I'd buy one (in fact I did once.) I don't want a motorcycle, I prefer riding scooters, and I'd like them to have nice features. I expect to pay for nice features.

    YMMV.
    #65
  6. Tromper

    Tromper Sagaciously Annoying Supporter

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    This dovetails to an article I read that mentioned that Maxi-Scoots which mount the engine on the frame are really more of an "Underbone Motorcycle" than a scooter.
    I read the description of an underbone, & I tend to agree.

    Overall I agree that it's odd to expect a bike with more features to cost less.
    I assume some of this beyond supply & demand would be due to the cost of doing the highly polished finishes you see on the naked bikes & cruiser etc since it does cost more to produce & polish chrome vs. producing painting & attaching plastic over a frame that can afford to have ugly (if functional) welds etc.
    #66
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  7. lowbuckrider

    lowbuckrider Been here awhile

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    The bike that comes to mind that comes the closest to the advantages of a scoot is the Honda NT700V. It is 11,900 less weather protection and you have to shift.:D
    #67
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  8. Tromper

    Tromper Sagaciously Annoying Supporter

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    Had one of those, very nice bike ('til I wrecked it)
    vs. the Burgman 650
    - Cargo space not as usable, or as capicous without the top box.
    - Manual Trans was great unless in stop & go traffic.
    - center of gravity significantly higher made fast cornering more fun in some respects, but slow speed stuff less fun.
    - OK wind protection down to your shins
    - had to raise the bars a bit to be comfortable.
    #68
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  9. casseldale

    casseldale Adventurer

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    I have to agree - the seat height is an issue for me - I'm very used to my Burgman's seat height so I'll have to wait to see the BMW in the flesh and sit on it before deciding to trade.
    #69
  10. AllanC

    AllanC Exception to the Rule

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    780mm = 30.7"
    #70
  11. Plasins

    Plasins Adventurer

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    Saw and sat on both of them yesterday. The sport looked better, but felt cramped. The touring version was very roomy, comfortable and appeared to be well made. Asked about the price, the touring will be about £7800 with a package costing £800 ish for ABS, heated grips and some other minor stuff. Both are due be released in the UK on the 24th March. Test ride already booked.
    #71
  12. TheReaper!

    TheReaper! Been here awhile

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    At today's exchange rates that equals $12,350 U.S. , they can't sell any of the mega scoots here today at any thing close to retail , so how are they going to sell a scooter with a price tag of over 12K ? My metric dealer here usually has 2 or 3 mega scooters in stock at any time (or less) and they sit and sit there . I bought my 2009 Tmax from them 2 years ago for $6,450 out the door . Would I pay double that for a scooter because it had a BMW name plate ? NOT A CHANCE !

    TheReaper!
    #72
  13. Plasins

    Plasins Adventurer

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    I think they will appeal to the BMW faithful over here who would not consider the T Max, Silverwing etc regardless of how good they are. Maxi scooters appear to be poor sellers in the UK unlike mainland Europe at the moment. The C600/C650 could change that.
    Adventure bikes - GS/Africa Twin etc - were always popular in Europe, but have only recently taken off in a big way over here. With fuel getting so expensive and large touring bikes costing so much, I can see that maxi scooters being the next big thing.
    Due to our increasingly difficult driver licensing laws, the age of motorcyclists seems to be getting older even moving into the grey/bald generation. When limbs/joints fail - myself included - the C600 & C650T seem to be the next step replacing the traditional cruiser & Harley route.
    #73
  14. John Bentall

    John Bentall Been here awhile

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    Hi,

    All the UK prices include sales tax at 20%, so should be less expensive in the US.

    Yamaha have sold 180,000 TMax's across Europe over the lifetime of the machine, of which 110,000 were sold in Italy! Has someone got equivalent figures for the USA?

    World-wide the maxi-scooter market is quite small. I would guess that US Yamaha dealers have to take some of each machine and sell them at no profit at all. Which makes some consumers very happy.
    #74
  15. gogogordy

    gogogordy Long timer

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    The taxes may be less in the UK, but someone's going to have pay the additional to ship these across the pond to the US which will undoubtedly cost more than from point of manufacture in Germany to the UK.

    That someone will be the American consumer. By the time you deduct the nearly 10% sales tax differential between here and there, re-add the increased freight costs, well....probably about the same money.

    Time will tell.
    #75
  16. Mr.Goose

    Mr.Goose Velvet Steamroller

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    Roughly 4-5 units per dealer in the US.
    #76
  17. alicethomas

    alicethomas Been here awhile

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    US and other unimportant oversea markets have to wait.
    BMW will jump into the market with 4-5000 units at once, but that's not enough for all their dealers to fill showroom and registered demonstration vehicles. Anyway BMW needs the whole winter to produce these amount. BMW dealers in Italy, France, Spain and Germany will be served first.
    Engine is produced by Kymco with BMW technology+rights.
    BMW expects more than 10000 sales (scooter only) per year.
    (Hendrik von Kuenheim, EICMA, 24.11.2011)

    I know people who already ordered their scooter.
    I bet their production is soon out of stock for many months.
    #77
  18. Mr.Goose

    Mr.Goose Velvet Steamroller

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    What's your source on the Kymco engine production? :ear

    They've been telling me it's going to be made in Germany.
    #78
  19. Cortez

    Cortez BAZINGA!

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    I've heard the same thing about the Kymco connection.

    I've also seen stuff about my bike (the kawi 650 twin) that make it more
    of a Kymco then a Kawasaki. :evil
    #79
  20. JoelWisman

    JoelWisman Long timer

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    The G650 and G450 engines are also made by Kymco, the big question is Kymco's Taiwan plant, or there plant in China. The stuff out of Taiwan is top quality, the stuff out of china, not so much.
    #80