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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by GB, Apr 24, 2008.
I would have to agree with you on anymore welding there.
@Ndarko here is a couple pictures, but it's pretty tough getting into the area. Hopefully this gets a idea of what I did. Also as you can see I don't have abs. So that could be an issue for you.
Unless I made some kind of an adapter to use a different sprocket which is actually what this welder I found here in Istanbul recommended I think I will have to pull the engine split the cases and replace this shaft to keep the bike going once this sprocket wears out... Kind of sucks to have so much money invested into the bike and now I'm looking at about 8 or $900 worth of only parts and a fair amount of time to do the maintenance
Yeah but all things considered, she's been pretty good to you. I mean she's been through some pretty awesome stuff and places.
As I've said before, you can get used parts from different bikes (f650/TR650) as they'll all fit the gearbox side of the engine.
I used a shift shaft from a '93 to 2000 model F650 (carbureted version) on my X and I paid €20 or so for it.
So it's down to labour rates more than anything if you can't do the work yourself.
I see what you're saying there bro. I talked with several BMW shops in Germany as well as in St Louis United States and we all found the same issue... The output shaft is different on our X bikes than any other Rotax engine used by BMW. The only other bikes that are similar are the Husqvarna TR650 and the other X-Country and X-Moto engines made in China. I'm heavily looking into making an adapter which would be welded on to the current counter shaft and would utilize a different front sprocket with bigger meater teeth...The main reason why I'm looking at this option is I think if I open up the engine splitting the cases potentially I will run into more issues or cans of worms.
Here in Turkey it costs $6.50 for this welder to work on my bike for 3 hours... I'm almost certain for less than $50 or $100 we could come up with a superb solution that would last the life of the motorcycle and be much stronger as well as more reliable
Weeeeeeell the owner of the BMW shop in St Louis, Missouri pulled the output shaft for a GS650 out of his stock and ordered one (out of four total in the world) output shafts for our X-Challenges from a nondescript warehouse in Germany... 5 weeks later it arrived in St Louis and we verified the sprocket is not the same with the internals splinds.
The G650X bikes use a different front sprocket and sprocket keeper mechanism than the GS650
Here is a picture of the drive shaft for the X-Challenge he has in his hand and a GS650 counter shaft I found here in Istanbul on my buddy's bike. The GS has a giant nut that holds the sprocket on and the X-Challenge uses a bolt, hat washer, and conical washer to hold the sprocket on the shaft.
Not saying you're wrong and I'm sure you did you due diligence and eliminated all the various shit that could've gone wrong;
- Dealer order incorrect part
- Supplier mislabeled part
- Supplier shipped incorrect part
FYI - It's just the F650GS that has the large nut.
The G650GS has the bolt and conical washer. Same as yours.
Pretty sure the only difference and why the 15t sprocket for the G650X is not shared with other models is because they use a 16t sprocket stock. But that 16t sprocket is also listed as a fit for the G650X.
Whoaaaaaa There is a f-650 GS and a g650 GS?!
I had no idea. I thought they were just the same bike. I need to do some more research then but this is what I found when I was talking with the dealer in St Louis... Great lost and food for thought bro... I'll dig into this my man
Up to 2008 F650GS was a thumper and was replaced by F650GS 800cc twin/ cheaper version of F800.. thumper was brought back as G650GS
I love how creative Germans are because they use almost exactly the same name for completely different motorcycles... Uuuuuugh
I don't know how many times I've complained about this over the years, but someone clearly had one last fuck you to BMW before changing jobs.
Traditionally BMW models were easy to understand as the first letter indicated what type of engine it had, the digits indicated engine volume and the last one or two letters described styling
R = boxer twin
K = inline four
F = single
Single cylinder 650cc
1993 F650 "Funduro" - carburettor
1997 F650ST street version of F650
2000 F650GS and Dakar single spark - EFI
2004 F650GS and Dakar twin spark
2007 G650X models
2008 G650GS and Sertao
Twin cylinder 800cc
2007 F650GS street version of F800GS (called 650, but 800cc engine)!
2012 F700GS renamed from F650GS
The G450X got the new G designation since BMW had changed from F to G.
So all the shit is just because they called the street version 650 instead of 800ST, which would've been logical and in line with what BMW had done since the 70s, vendors and dealers all around the world are mixing up the F650GS models. OR, they could've just called the parallel twin the G series and continued with F for all single cylinder bikes. Problem solved.
Any listing mentioning F650GS and F800GS is almost always a part for the twin, not the thumper.
I'm wondering if maybe your St Louis dealer ordered an end shaft for a twin F650GS.....
This is a reason why people/shops have mounted the wrong sprocket on 650's I believe.
Like I mention above there have been minor changes here and there, but for all intents and purposes the thumper F650GS/ F650GS Dakar and G650GS/ G650GS Sertao are the same bike. They've mostly just changed the plastic. Mostly.
Problem is the 800cc twin F650GS
Ohh. and also, btw, re-read your post above where you say
"Weeeeeeell the owner of the BMW shop in St Louis, Missouri pulled the output shaft for a GS650 out of his stock and ordered one (out of four total in the world) output shafts for our X-Challenges from a nondescript warehouse in Germany... 5 weeks later it arrived in St Louis and we verified the sprocket is not the same with the internals splinds.
The G650X bikes use a different front sprocket and sprocket keeper mechanism than the GS650"
GS650 is a Suzuki....no wonder the shaft isn't a match
It probably is a Suzuki but I also don't know anything about other BMWs besides our bike because I consider them all overpriced over complicated garbage to take to Starbucks on the weekends
The dealer there in St Louis is pretty knowledgeable and he and his team did quite a bit of research for me and since they had the parts in stock they actually showed me the picture differences. I'm not saying they did not make a mistake but I am saying you probably know more than they do without a doubt
From what I understand "F" renaming happened because ze germanz were too eager to convince that twin is a replacement for thumper.. that's why they even called it F650GS. It was their best selling bike at that point maybe second after R-GS.
To get the motor out allow 1 day and 1 day to put it back
Allow 1 day for the motor strip and assemble if working fast or take your time and use an extra day
Get seal and gasket kit, water pump kit and any other high wear part before you strip
Mine was about 1450aud when I did my counter shaft a couple of years ago using OEM parts I managed to get at trade price
Some good posts on doing the job on adv rider
Fly wheel puller is also needed, use a paint heat gun to heat fly wheel boss for removal
I think I did cooling system hoses at same time, also need exhaust gaskets
Also need the silicone grease for water pump on install
Use zip lock bags and mark every thing as you go and label wiring loom as you take it off connections
Lots of pics to double check as you go
Just to complicate matters. Here are the different models covered by the Repair Manual DVD for G Models K15 and G Models R13:
G 650 GS [0171, 0178, 0180, R13/31]
G 650 GS [0179,R13/31] (US)
G 650 Xchallenge [0165, K15]
G 650 Xchallenge [0195, K15] (US)
G 650 Xcountry [0164, 0141, K15]
G 650 Xcountry [0194, 0151, K15] (US)
G 650 Xmoto [0167, K15]
G 650 Xmoto [0167, K15] (US)
So "inside" BMW development the bikes had a different numbering system.
I sure as fuck hope not.
The original F was also the R13, but had a different four digit code after that.
R14 is the 2000-2005 F650CS so it seems they continued the numbering, but changed the letter.
I have no idea why they kept R13 for the G650GS, and changed it to K15 with the G650X series. All R13's share the same frame, but that logic falters since the X bikes don't have the same frame, right?
K16 is the G450X 2007-2010
F800S, ST and GT 2004-2019 are K71
F700GS 2011-2017 is K70
F650GS and F800GS 2006-2018 are K72
F800R 2005-2019 is K73
K74 is missing from the list at RealOEM so might be a project that was never brought to fruition?
F800GSA 2012-2017 is K75