BMW G650X Challenge Thread Index

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by GB, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. tbarstow

    tbarstow Two-wheelin' Fool Super Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,683
    Location:
    Mesa, AZ
    Len - get the Emig damper for the 990. That's what I ended up with, as the 650X one kept leaking or getting blown out. EMIG was great to deal with, just pay for shipping to get it rebuilt or replaced.
    keepshoveling and Len like this.
  2. Delta61

    Delta61 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    375
    Location:
    Southeast Alabama
    +1 on the EMIG setup. I have the billet triples with damper system on my X and love it.
  3. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,424
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Guys, You can increase the amount of fuel delivered each time the injector fires in either way you've suggested: find an injector with the same number of nozzles, same spray pattern and same angle of spray; or you can boost fuel pressure (the amount of increase is equal to the square-root of the pressure increase factor, e.g. a 20% increase in pressure is about 9.5% in fuel volume sqrt(1.2)=1.095).

    However, if you leave a stock narrowband O2 sensor connected, the long term trim factors will come down by the same amount as the fuel flow goes up. So if you add 10% to the volume of fuel delivered, the long term trims will look like 0.90 (assuming they were 1.00 to begin with). The result will be a fuel pulse that is shorter in duration. You will get an AFR boost initially, for a short time but then it will revert to the AFRs dictated by the O2 sensor. This applies to all areas of the fuel map, not just Closed Loop because the long term trims apply to the whole map.

    I ran a 20% fuel pressure increase for about 3 years. With my lambda-shifting setup, my Motronic ECU did adapt faster to the final 10% richer setting of the LC-1 but the fuel pressure increase did not change the long term AFR of the engine.
    keepshoveling likes this.
  4. gr8grins

    gr8grins Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Oddometer:
    395
    Location:
    PNW Dry
    I'll call Emig on Monday. Thank you.
  5. gr8grins

    gr8grins Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Oddometer:
    395
    Location:
    PNW Dry
    Roger, thank you for the reply.

    Just to clarify- a larger injector or higher fuel pressure will be learned out and the AFR will return to 14.7:1 if the stock O2 sensor is left there- correct?

    To that end, would you recommend a LC-1 or an AF-XIED for a BMSC controlled bike?
    (Presuming I can get a harness adapter plug setup for the X.)

    Thank you,
    Brad
  6. gr8grins

    gr8grins Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Oddometer:
    395
    Location:
    PNW Dry
    The Hyperpro is on the rear already. Thanks to the generous folks here, I was able to get the information needed to choose that one.

    The front information is now in one place also. Thank you.
  7. crash a-ron

    crash a-ron mmm...burnt steel Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Oddometer:
    402
    Location:
    The Great Pacific Northwet
    I too have been playing with clutch bits on my XChallenge. Mine has about 9,000 miles, and had a terribly dragging clutch no matter the cable adjustment. I just installed the '09 Xcountry cover and it is a completely different bike!

    Here are the specs for the 2007 G650X clutch as found them in the service CD:

    21 - Clutch Technical Data
    G650XChallenge 2007


    Number of clutch plates:
    7 steel plates
    7 friction plates

    Height of all lined plates: min 23.24 mm

    Thickness of one lined plate:
    When new 3.5 +/- 0.08 mm
    Wear limit: min 3.32 mm

    Thickness of one steel plate: When new 2 +/- 0.05 mm

    Height of entire stack: Wear limit min 34.94 mm

    Distortion of one lined plate: Max 0.15 mm

    Distortion of one steel plate: max 0.15 mm

    Clutch operating clearance at release lever (between clutch cable holder and release lever): 47-52 mm
    tommyvdv and keepshoveling like this.
  8. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,557
    Location:
    Boise aria
    Thanks.
  9. Dutchgit

    Dutchgit Completely clogless

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,764
    Location:
    Герма́ния
    I'm not very knowledgeable on fuel injection specifics and I know the ecu can cancel out any tricks but I was thinking that if I fit a bigger injector together with a less restrictive airfilter set-up the engine would be getting more air, more fuel by the bigger injector with the Lambda values and the ECU to do the math of coming up with the right AFR.
    Is there an error in my thinking ?

    Cheers, Ard
  10. XallengeXccepted

    XallengeXccepted Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Oddometer:
    399
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    So I put a new set of rubber on my Xchallenge today, and ended up snapping one of the pot metal axle clamp screws for the front axle.

    Anyone know how important those are? :-)
  11. Len

    Len Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Oddometer:
    5,906
    Location:
    North Alabama
    I'd say the remaining pot metal axle clamp just got very important since it has to carry twice the load than before its buddy died. You seriously need to get that broken piece out and get new bolts in there, having a front axle slip or break the fork lug if the remaining bolt fails would suck big time.

    Any good machine shop will have an easy out and can drill a hole in the bolt without causing any damage to the fork, you just have to find a good shop. You may be able to do it yourself, but usually when bolts break, they don't leave a nice square edge to get a hole started without the drill bit walking off center. It takes a good touch, a drill bushing, a left handed drill or a combination of all the above.
  12. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,424
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Brad, Yes, a larger injector or higher fuel pressure get learned (unless you disconnect the O2, which creates other issues).

    The BMSC powers the O2 sensor heater in a different way than the BMSK but I believe that Nightrider can make a cable. You have to find a place to connect switched +12V. If you go the Innovate Motorsports route, they discontinued the LC-1 but sell a better device, the LC-2. The LC-2 takes some electrical wiring and programming skill. Either will shift lambda and create a richer mixture for your bike.
  13. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,424
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Ard, There is no error to your thinking except that the BMSC will automatically add fuel (without going to bigger injectors) IF (and it's a big if) you can get more air into the engine.

    The point is that unless you can add 15-20% more air (unlikely with a filter change) the long term trims have enough range to add the fuel needed.

    The safe way to make major engine modifications is to weld a second bung into the exhaust and install a Wideband O2 so you can log and monitor AFR. But it doesn't sound like you're making changes of that magnitude.
  14. Dutchgit

    Dutchgit Completely clogless

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,764
    Location:
    Герма́ния
    Thanks for that Roger, I have a Twin Air filter which should be better than standard and possibly better than K&N type filters and I've increased the opening in the the filter cover by around 100% but I've read of someone who fitted a second filter to the housing so the engine can get more air in (in theory) hence the idea of the bigger injector. I can stick it on a dyno at a mate's shop to see what's what but if a bigger injector isn't going to bring anything it'd be a waste of money. I suppose you can't stick a wide band sensor to the current ECU ?
    I've been thinking of going the Microsquirt route but can't justify it at the moment.
  15. XallengeXccepted

    XallengeXccepted Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Oddometer:
    399
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Thanks, you are right of course.

    On your advice, I ended up tackling it this morning before work and it ended up being far easier than expected. I started drilling a hole in the screw and as I was doing so, the drill bit worked the screw forward until just the tip of it was sticking out of the bottom of the fork clamp. I was then able to grab onto it with a pair of wire cutters and remove it through the bottom.
    Alt_Red likes this.
  16. Len

    Len Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Oddometer:
    5,906
    Location:
    North Alabama
    Great Job! :beer
  17. Dutchgit

    Dutchgit Completely clogless

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,764
    Location:
    Герма́ния
    So next time: Put some medium thread locker on it and do them up to the specified torque :brow
    :beer
    blaster11 and Len like this.
  18. Humphery

    Humphery Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Oddometer:
    17
    Location:
    ma
  19. Humphery

    Humphery Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Oddometer:
    17
    Location:
    ma
  20. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,424
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    You can install a wideband sensor and Innovate LC-2, program it for 6-12% more fuel and you'll probably get a better result than the air filter change. Bikes with O2 sensors are all lean-fueled but richening the O2 sensor easily gets the BMSC to add fuel. The LC-2 is a bit of a project but the stock sensor with an AF-XIED is plug 'n play and will do the job if Nightrider or BeemerBoneyard has the cable.
    Dutchgit and keepshoveling like this.