BMW's new EnduroGuard suit

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Sailorlite, Oct 28, 2016.

  1. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Yes, all Goretex is a 20k or higher water column - GorePro laminates are well beyond, making the weakest points in a GorePro garment the zippers/tape and not the membrane. GoreTex is not the "best" or anything (in fact in the outdoors world they've been surpassed in pretty much every specific criteria), they just have an enormous amount of mindshare in the US and some people really like the whole guarantee thing.

    Breathability is a weird thing; there's two different laboratory measures of it, a lot depends on the inner/outer conditions around the membrane, once an area wets out the membrane can no longer transpire vapor through that area, and direct venting will always have more of an effect on comfort then the membrane.
  2. Kmendez

    Kmendez Been here awhile

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    Likely because breathability ?


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  3. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Yeah no, I'm going to go with cost savings and/or manufacturing concerns, and/or the ability to "house brand" the membrane.
  4. RoundTrip

    RoundTrip Unintentional deerslayer Supporter

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    That theory kinda doesn't work when BMW tells everyone it is a Schoeller fabric. The big reason for using the c_shell fabric is breathability. There is no comparison between the c_shell and GoreTex for that metric. And I have yet to get wet in my EG.
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  5. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Is it really c_change? I know people have said that, and it's one of the reasons I tried the suit out earlier this year, but BMW is now calling it their "Climate membrane", whereas older suits specifically called out that they were using c_change.
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  6. Norsman

    Norsman ...a GSophile

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    Whatever happened to Aerostich being the bee's knees as far as waterproofness goes? (except for the one piece water pooling in the crotch fiasco). No, really... the two piece custom suit is incredible. I used my stitch daily in Las Vegas... it vents well (except for the pants, venting sucks.). I have never had my stich leak... ever.
  7. TuonoBiker

    TuonoBiker Long timer

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    For me, the battle of Form and Function was a real fight....Form won the battle. I could never get on board with Aerostitch styling...
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  8. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    ^ this, and venting.
  9. RoundTrip

    RoundTrip Unintentional deerslayer Supporter

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    This is the BMW video on the EG where they discuss the "climate membrane". They do not call out Schoeller explicitly, but they sure describe the c_change material perfectly.

    The description of the membrane is at 3:16.

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  10. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Huh, yeah, that's the c_change logo. If true, surprised that schoeller allowed them to house brand it.

    c_change is actually pretty old tech in the membrane world, there's newer iterations of various membranes that provide better performance characteristics (Neoshell, GoreTex Active, Dermizax EV/NX), and c_change also loses its breathability in lower temps (obviously more relevant to active outdoors activities then sitting on a bike). I do have a 2.5 layer c_change hiking jacket that I really like, because schoeller also offers a variety of attractive stretch fabrics to bond their membrane to for casual type wear.

    I've cycled through a number of the high end ($800+) laminated jackets over the last year, and I found it interesting that at an indoors temperature (~74f) the most comfortable just sitting around with all the vents closed by far was my Spidi Globetracker - which uses Toray nylons laminated with a Dermizax EV membrane. Found myself rapidly heating up wearing the EG jacket, and the Aether Expedition as well - which could also be a factor of how much heavier/thicker the nylon outer layer is on those two.
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  11. TuonoBiker

    TuonoBiker Long timer

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    I believe BMW is also using Schoeller's ceraspace and dynatec names in the EG suit descriptions.

    The EG is a robust suit, so I think heating up in it is just going to be the way it is...especially standing or sitting around with limited air moving through it.
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  12. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Yeah, they're using a bunch of schoeller tech and branding it as such - which again is why I find it odd they're not announcing c_change. I'm wondering if the Climate Membrane is a schoeller provided membrane that's different from c_change, since I remember a complaint about the Richa Spirit and older BMW...Comfortshell? suit that used c_change was that the membrane decayed over time from exposure to exhaust gasses and other road pollutants.
  13. Norsman

    Norsman ...a GSophile

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    My stich vents better and wears cooler than my enduroguard for sure. If the vents on the enduroguard actually stayed open or where held open better that may be different... maybe. As for the pants, aerostich sucks as far as venting.

    I think the inside cuffs (sleeves and pants) on the EG suit restrict air flow and make the suit clammy.
  14. TuonoBiker

    TuonoBiker Long timer

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    I always rode with the cuffs open wide, unless it was cooler out. But, in the heat, open all the way.

    So even with the full length front zip on the EG, you prefer the 'Stitch venting? Interesting...

    I've never been so fickle, I don't think. Of course, thinking back, when I first got married, I remember my mother telling my wife, "Have fun shopping for clothing with him..." lol Maybe now I know what she meant....
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  15. TuonoBiker

    TuonoBiker Long timer

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    So I'm officially done with riding gear for now - I ordered new NP2 armor for my RP3 jacket/pants. I'll come back to my riding gear saga next spring.

    I think I'm just gonna buy a new '18 GSA with the store credit from the EG. Why not....gettem' while they're hot...
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  16. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    ^thats funny right there.

    I found the center zip to not be super helpful. I wonder if it would do more with chest armor in the jacket to create spacing for airflow. Of course, being in the humid SE makes things more complicated.
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  17. TuonoBiker

    TuonoBiker Long timer

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    Nothing works in humid weather or high-heat dry weather...Really, IMO, the "best" suit out there is a well ventilated mesh with armor and then rain gear over top. Humid climates will always suck to some degree with a laminate shell. Its just how it is...

    I'm 3/4 serious about using the store credit towards a new GSA...I'm tempted. I feel like I haven't really been on the hunt, though. Its sort of "last minute"...I mean, I've been looking at them, of course, but not with much serious thought. I like the hunt.....looking, searching for the one, lusting after it, losing sleep with anxiety...you know, all that stuff. This would be a bit too nonchalant if I just stroll in and say, "yeah...write it up..."
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  18. Frosty8

    Frosty8 Been here awhile

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    I like my Roadcrafter one piece as well. But I was thinking about the EnduroGuard as something I could just take off the jacket and leave the pants on at stops. The Roadcrafter is a bit of an all or nothing deal.

    There is a dealer a couple of hundred miles away that might have my short sizes and it is on the way to a Klim dealer that I can search their inventory before I go. Klim is now worth my time since they are making the Latitude and Badlands Pro in short sizes. I have to try the fit in person, no mail order for me unless absolutely unavoidable.
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  19. murdock84

    murdock84 Been here awhile

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    I find the Toray with Dermizax EV membrane to be superior to the Goretex stuff. I've been getting some Kuiu brand hunting items and they use the Toray brand material. The stuff seems to breath better and I can be active and not sweat as much.
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  20. Kmendez

    Kmendez Been here awhile

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    I found the center zipper with mesh an amazing feature tremendous amount of air flows through it.
    But sometimes when I don’t pay attention I zip the wrong parts
    The mesh zipper with the front outer zipper


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