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California bans ICE cars and trucks 2035

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by Spaceweasel, Sep 23, 2020.

  1. Spaceweasel

    Spaceweasel Adventurer

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    Gov. Newsom just signed an executive order banning the sale of new ICE cars and light trucks after 2035.
    https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO-N-79-20-text.pdf

    Conspicuously absent from this is mention of electric motorcycles. Given the rapid advancement of battery tech I expect ev bikes will be plenty competitive on range/weight/power by then. I'm sort of surprised he didn't include them.
    #1
  2. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    I read that, sounds both good and far fetched. Just how does he expect to generate the power? I really don't know but I believe now the power is hydro and a small amount of solar and wind. But the state can't make enough that the grid is always falling off. With that said I'm guessing the best bet would be nuclear. And I'm sure the tax payers will be footing the bill plus higher than normal electric bill.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm actually a large fan of nuclear after work and making a living the last 20+ years.

    What is your thoughts on this other than the expansion of electric vehicles.
    #2
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  3. Spaceweasel

    Spaceweasel Adventurer

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    California is well suited to large(er) scale deployment of solar, which can be brought online fairly quickly. Certainly within the decade and a half that is being proposed. Obviously this is a political gesture, but it serves to put Californians, Californian auto dealers, and manufacturers on notice that this is where things are headed. I tend to think that 15 years from now EV tech will have well and truly moved past ICE on both a performance and cost perspective.

    With your experience in nuclear, do you think that the tides will turn on public opinion enough to jumpstart expansion of that portion of the grid?
    #3
  4. CrazyCooter

    CrazyCooter --Crazy MoFo-- Supporter

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    I'll be out of CA long before then.

    I like the idea of EVs, but they just don't work where I live. Not sure where he plans to get the electricity from. Just more policies from a guy living in his own world....
    #4
  5. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    That would be the million dollar question. But coming from Pennsylvania, the land of fossil fuel. That's not going to sit well at all. The scale of nuclear I was in propulsion for naval vessels. And pumping for nuclear power plants. Mostly overseas for the power plants. China, France and some other asian market.

    I've been saying for years that fossil fuel isn't going to last forever. And with the push for lower emissions and global warming i don't think the people are going many options. I can't see the other renewable energy being able to be enough for the demand.
    #5
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  6. yobuddy

    yobuddy Been here awhile

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    Utility companies can't meet the high demands right now. How in the hell do they expect to meet the demands of 20 million plus electric vehicles. Solar farms are not the answer. I see solar farms covering fertile land which was farmland in the past providing much needed agriculture products.
    Newsome is hitting the crack pipe again! Just my $.02
    #6
  7. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    Everyone will be living in tents.
    #7
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  8. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    Maybe he did it so no one would have enough battery range to escape the state anymore?
    #8
  9. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    FB_IMG_1600906930919.jpg
    #9
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  10. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Lol, some of you guys need to put the crack pipe down. All of my vehicles are electric and they all get powered from the 20 solar panels on my roof. I make multi state and out of the country trips on electric power as well with no problem.

    I still have around $240 in credit from my panels as I make more energy than I use, which includes powering my home. I have plenty of space on my roof for more panels if I need them, but for now, I get rebate checks from the utility company at the end of each year for generating more energy than I used.

    There are more EV’s in the state of California than any other state and have been for a long time. Every new home built in my neighborhood has solar panels, making for more than 50% of homes within a 20 mile radius with panels, and there’s no apocalyptic scenario here. I’ve got neighbors with EV’s in every direction, including across the street. People switch to them because they are less expensive to own and a lot more fun to drive. I’ve travelled over 110,000 miles on electric and it hasn’t cost me anything yet to power. Tires and brake pads are all that I’ve had to purchase. I haven’t paid attention to gas prices since 2016 and it’s more convenient to just go straight to your destination and home without having to stop at a gas station. There’s plenty of sun to generate solar on roofs and the panels pay for themselves many times over in what they generate, and add value to my home on top of that. Why wouldn’t I power my vehicles with the excess energy they make?
    #10
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  11. Spaceweasel

    Spaceweasel Adventurer

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    Some back of the napkin figuring on CA power needs for EVs.

    The average EVs use approximately 3-4000kwh per year (13,500 miles at 25kw/m). Average American home uses ~10kwh per year. Solar takes 6-8 acres per megawatt, where 1 MW powers roughly 200 (American-sized) homes, or roughly .04 acres per home.

    That's not much land that has to be diverted to solar to meet the needs. Average lot size in America is 10,800sf, or roughly .25 acre. In CA it's smaller, at 7,200sf, or roughly .165 acre per home. If new construction of residential homes regularly uses panels just on the roof, you are over the mark. If new development neighborhoods set aside a small park for panels, they could power the whole neighborhood. The upfront costs would pay for themselves in short order.

    Heck, if you cover your motorcycle shed roof in panels you would likely more than meet the needs of a new Zero SR/F.
    #11
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  12. tallpaul63

    tallpaul63 Long timer

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    California has lots of land that doesn’t lend itself to agriculture, but works just fine for solar power generation. And wind power can work fine in agricultural areas as well. It’s true that we will need more power. It’s not a terribly difficult problem to solve.
    #12
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  13. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    I will not be around most likely to see it. But unfortunately I see a need to get away from fossil fuel. Even though I was raised from the income (steel mill) and my kids work for mining industry. Not to mention about every one I know benefit from it around my home state. Solar and wind probably isn't an option the system would have to be too large. I'm sure banking on nuclear.
    #13
  14. Friz Freleng

    Friz Freleng Religious zealot Supporter

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    I watched a Bloomberg interview with the head of CARB this morning. Let's just say she wasn't being asked the tough questions, not the least of which is why she thinks California--a state that has a nearly perfect record of mishandling electrical regulatory oversight, generation, distribution, and costs--is capable of doing this without handing consumers a huge bill or worse. California already has the least dependable yet most expensive electricity in the country. The fact that Newsom's order comes on the heels of the PG&E bankruptcy suggests there is much more than meets the eye. Combine all this with California's antagonistic stance on expanding the use of natural gas and you have to wonder how badly all of this will come flying apart in 20 years.

    We've already seen a glimpse of California's indifference toward decades of PG&E's managerial incompetence and corruption. Why should we expect anything different in the future?

    One other thing: the head of CARB said this will include "off-road vehicles."
    #14
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  15. soloyosh

    soloyosh Dad and husband Supporter

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    When the machines take over and us humans are forced to blot out the sky, your solar panels wont help you.


    Sorry... just watched The Matrix a couple nights ago...
    #15
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  16. Olde Phart

    Olde Phart Olde Phart

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    Interesting testimonial. What do you anticipate as future risk with respect to additional costs to fund roads sans gasoline taxes? Is vehicle mileage tracking and mileage based taxes being bandied about in your jurisdiction?

    Good electron torturing to ya!
    #16
  17. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    Define mishandling. Managing the grid for the good of all of is quite a bit different than managing the grid to maximize the profit and wishes of a few people. I am not in California, I have no stake in the utility companies out there. As such I have no need to study the utility company and regulation there. This is just an observation based on what I see here in Missouri.

    Rod
    #17
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  18. Bar None

    Bar None OLD DUDE Supporter

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    Glad to read that you are doing so well with your solar panels.
    Please list your electric vehicles.
    #18
  19. CrazyCooter

    CrazyCooter --Crazy MoFo-- Supporter

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    Electric vehicles ust dont make financial or practical sense for us here in "Far Northern CA".

    I have solar on my roof too and as we make improvements in efficiency to our home, we'll have an excess at true up.......My commute is 4.6 miles round trip which is perfect for EV, but the cost to insure and reg an EV in addition to a vehicle I already own that has a good range doesnt pencil out. I drive 1100 miles a year to work and 10,000+ to remote areas where EVs wont work.

    Last weekend, I drove 1250 miles total over 4 days camping in the remote deserts of Or, Nv, and Id while towing a tiny tent trailer (Solar on the roof). Can any EV do that? Will they ever be able to?

    Two months ago I did a 1650 mile trip on my 1290 over 3 days through much of the same country. No electric motorcycle would be able to do this either.......

    When I gotta get somewhere, I gotta go. No time to spend half a day at charging stations not that any exist out where I was traveling.........Oh ya, that's why I go there! No city slickers.......

    Other times I'm pulling a 19,000lb 5th wheel......again.....into the most remote areas I can get near. No EV doing that either........

    I know sometimes these impossible ideas have to be forced so that the technology will develop. I'm just not seeing me ever having an EV as my primary vehicle unless insurance and registration becomes free..

    Theres a low mileage electric Smart for sale in the flea market if anyone is looking. I was tempted, but it would cost me more to own it than it would save.
    #19
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  20. RightChoice

    RightChoice Been here awhile

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    I fail to see what the big deal is. Assuming that the AI doesn't take over and either further enslave or wipe out humanity altogether ala The Matrix or Terminator style (which is a fair concern), then I see the following happening that will lead us to transition just fine to electric vehicles:

    -the batteries that drive the electric vehicles will get better
    -we will have more charging stations/ gas stations will convert some of their pumps to fast-charging EV
    -the oil and gas corporations will release the tech that is presently deep-sixed in their basements
    #20
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