Camp F*ck n F*ck rat-rig assembly

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by MotoJ, Aug 6, 2011.

  1. DirtyDog

    DirtyDog Omnia mea mecum porto Supporter

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    #21
  2. Ryushin Kan

    Ryushin Kan kancho

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    Now that's what you call re-cycling!

    Sorry guys, I must be getting old, went to Andy's and forgot the camera! However thanks to MotoJ for posting the link - the shop is very similar to above but with a more eclectic mix of bikes and brands. promise to take it next time :wink:
    #22
  3. Ockrocket

    Ockrocket Long timer

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    :lurk
    :trp
    Next instalment please :hmmmmm

    I'm hooked :clap
    #23
  4. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    I was a little daunted by the serious expenditures of skill, engineering, and dough in some of these other build threads. My project isn't truly a "build", in the sense that I'm not machining parts or making my own frame, etc. More of an assemblage of parts and slathering some paint (lots of paint!). Some of the inmates here are truly artists when it comes to this stuff. But, the other end of the spectrum has to signify too, right? Have to establish a baseline!

    So let's get rid of the paint stuff finally and get back to the nitty-gritty of hanging the chair on the bike...

    Since this rig is going to have to live outside (under a tarp or cover) all year round, I wasn't going to consider lipsticking this pig. I wanted finishes that could stand up to sun, rain, snow, sand, and salt. And, since the tub was already so dinged up, I figured I would go with an "industrial" look. This would give me options on products normally not used for finished bodywork, plus it would camoflage my lack of skill (and a sprayer).

    I was thinking marine grade finishes. And instead of yacht, think listing rusty freighter...

    I set aside my blue bodywork. It was pretty crappy itself, but it was all original paint and it matched. If I go back to a solo, I can put it back the way it was.

    I scored a $50 POS bashed in tank off EBay and Tom gave me some old /5 fenders off a wreck he had squirrelled away. I also have two mismatched sidecovers, but I might not be able to fit them in the end. I discovered the tank had pinholes all along the bottom, so it ended up costing me additional $$ in tank repair kit. Sigh.

    For the final topcoat on everything, I went with a POR-15 product called Metal Mask: http://www.por15.com/METAL-MASK/productinfo/MMH/.

    One quart put two coats on the tub and bodywork, and I still have some in my refrigerator. I went through a lot of foam brushes, though!

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    Young Fred has been showing a lot of interest. He's positively cross-eyed with delight...Hopefully he'll actually want to ride...
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    Old dog will definitely ride!

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    The cracks at all four corners of the cockpit combing have been welded and faired in with Bondo at this point...

    Went crazy and undercoated with a cheapo rubberized aerosal undercoat from Salvo. Not necessary, but more of an aesthetic thing. On the interior, I undercoated it and used a light blue floor paint I had on the shelf. I was thinking it would give some grip for paws and reflect some sun so it didn't get too hot in there...
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    Even cut a mat for a mini-van. Also from Salvo...
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    So, I'm done messing with paint for now....
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    Let's see what's happening with the bike and the endeavor of attaching a chair to it...
    #24
  5. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    So, I knew I needed a subframe to take the stress off the /7 frame, especially with a heavy chair like the Dnepr. On Tom's /5 rig he has a home-made subframe, and the initial plan was to make another for my bike, out of 1/4" and 1/2" steel. The Dnepr frame uses "bell and jaws" mounts that clamp onto 30 mm. balls that are part of the Dnepr bike frame. Same setup on /2 BMWs and Urals. I searched high and low for some balls (hee-hee, "balls"), and finally came across a link for Old Timer Garage in Poland: http://www.oldtimergarage.szn.pl/ in a thread on the Russian Iron site. I bought a pair of balls (snicker) for about $10 apiece, USD. Shipping was $22. Not too bad...

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    These were cut off a Dnepr bike frame. In fact, the guy cut right through the frame tube, then halved that, so each ball has a saddle so it can be welded to something (like a home-made subframe). Just think, there's so many junk Dnepr frames in Poland that they can trash a whole frame for $20.

    Incidentally, the Russian Iron and Soviet Steeds sites are great resources for anything Russian sidecar related. I even bought from "He Who Must Not Be Named" in Ohio, via EBay. He did OK by me, but from what I hear, don't ever buy a whole rig from the guy.

    Anyway, from those places, I scored the 18" wheel I wanted, a backer plate with brake and cable, a shock, a fender, and lights. I also found a second set of balls (hahaha-oh my lord), to keep in reserve.

    The lights were FREE from Matman72. He has a really cool Ural build thread up here. I met him over on Russian Iron, I think. Thanks again, Matman72!




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    The Russian tire on the wheel looks brand new, but the bearings suck, so new tapered Timkens are going in.

    So that was the plan- make a subframe. I started lurking around the shipping container place behind the wood shop where I work looking for scrap steel. But, one night while surfing this site, I came across this bit of tail:

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    Yowza! This was also put up in a thread by BMWEuro (thanks again, Chris!). He had purchased it to use on a customer's R90/Ural project, but decided on an even beefier subframe arrangement. So, another couple PMs and it was in my sweaty palms. A lot of dough, but I knew it would be strong and engineered well. Made by Matthias Bauhs, in Germany.
    #25
  6. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Things had been moving along fairly briskly, considering the hellish hot weather we'd been experiencing. Now we had to start the process of hanging the chair. I was actually starting to get some nerves in my gut: I'm gonna have to ride this contraption soon!

    So basically we have three pieces that need to go together in some arrangement that is secure, safe, and makes adjustments to the whole rig allowable.

    First, the bike. New livery, new wide-as-steerhorns-bars, killer brakes (compared to the former single disk), and a charging system that will light up my house and charge the battery at just off idle. New chrome headers and cross piece too (what the heck, eh?)

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    Notice the brass bar end weights turned by Tom from a big chunk o'brass. Knurled, too!


    Next, we have the sidecar frame. Pretty rough, but I'm not going to start prettying it up until we're done with our mock-up. That shock is stiff! I'm gonna have to start dating some biiig girls to take full advantage of that.

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    Finally, we have this, the crucial piece that serves as the liason between bike and car, the all important Point of Attachment- pure powder-coated sex, and costing twice as much as the entire sidecar:

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    Should all be done in a jiff, right?
    #26
  7. Ockrocket

    Ockrocket Long timer

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    Looks like fun MotoJ, the satisfaction you will have when it's all done will be worth the effort.

    The good thing about starting with such a rough base means you can pretty much do what you like along the way to make it usable.

    And nothing like having a piano in the workshop for a little sing along while on a "beer break". :huh
    #27
  8. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    Small world. My wife used to date Tom. And, I owned a Ural. Have fun with that build!
    #28
  9. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Yeah, it has been fun. I did a lot of reading, despite saying this has been a seat of the pants build. It is going to do what I want it for, although I'm sure there'll be tweaking as I learn how to drive it and discover deficiencies.

    And for breaks there's also a couple Marshall stacks in there. Not a lot of shredding going on, but the Itunes through the stacks and PA make for a very loud work environment! Just the thing to set the mood.
    #29
  10. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    yeah, it's a small world. Were you in Baltimore, RRA? Part of the Chris, Bucky, Tex vintage race crew? I did see a 650 Ural rig at Tom's shop a few times. Was that yours? I may have met you once or twice.

    Anyway, thanks for checking out the thread!
    #30
  11. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    We had the trick subframe now- that should take some hours off the build, right? Not quite. We wanted the tub to sit lower and farther away from the bike than the frame mounts would dictate. Both for handling reasons (lower and wider means less lift in right turns), and for servicing (getting the valve cover off for valve adjustment, access to carb and oil filter port for maintenance).

    To do this we had to cut the front ball jaw mount off the frame and swivel it. This would allow us to move the frame away and also move it front to back in order to set the wheel lead. We put the subframe on the bike and did a preliminary fit. With the frame mount unmodified, the tub nose would have sat up and looked like a boat in heavy chop. Plus our wheel lead would have been close to a foot, which would have been about 20% of the wheel base. We were shooting for more like 12-15%- somewhere around 7-8".

    The bigger problem was that even with the mount cut and swivelled so that the rear adjustable mount and the front mount were at their closest distance to each other, the sidecar frame mounts were still about 3" wider apart than the balls on the new subframe. Crap!

    the point of no return:

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    This rusty piece of Honda fork tube will be just the thing...

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    That's a long ways from mount to ball (snicker, snicker)

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    The first chink in the armor...
    #31
  12. baldwithglasses

    baldwithglasses Godspeed, Robert

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    What's the difference with having a longer/shorter wheel lead in a hack?
    #32
  13. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    Yes, this is Alan. The I owned the Ural when I lived overseas in '02-03. What's your "meat name"?

    I was friends with Samara (who introduced me to Zina), and did know tangentially Chris, Bucky & Tex. I sold a Derbi GPR 50 to Bucky, IIRC.

    I lived in Wheaton, but worked in Baltimore a lot. I'm in Oakland, CA now.

    Ha, yes, small world, getting smaller all the time.
    #33
  14. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Well, I'm a noob, obviously, but the way it was explained to me is this:

    The easiest steering would be if the axle of the car wheel and the axle of the bike's rear wheel were in line. However, if that were the case, in hard left hand turns, the weight of the sidecar and whatever load is in it, plus the unloading of the rear suspension as you brake and make the turn, could cause the nose of the car to dive and grind into the road. In severe cases a "ground loop" can happen.

    The farther the wheel is moved towards the front, the more stable the rig weight distribution-wise, but what happens is the sidecar wheel scrubs the road, rather than rolling through in the arc of the turn. The 15% of wheelbase number is sort of a happy medium that is a good place to start, especially for a novice like me. After that the rig can be tweaked according to the rider's preference. From everything I've read, this is not an exact science.

    Hopefully some more experienced hack setter-uppers will chime in...
    #34
  15. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    I knew Samara and your wife- tall dark haired medical illustrator beauty, yes?. I saw that Derbi (rode it in fact) when it was stored in the basement of the woodshop I used to work at in South Baltimore- LCM. One of the partners sponsored Chris and Tom (partially, anyway). Chris worked there, too. I think he was dating Samara at the time, and that's how the Derbi ended up there. I know Samara raced it in special Derbi events a couple times. Presuming we're talking about the same bike! This all would have been 99-01 therebouts, right?

    My name is Jim, BTW.
    What does "IIRC" stand for?
    #35
  16. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    We had the problem of the rear mount. It was nowhere near the rear subframe ball mount. We thought about cutting another piece of fork tube (BMW this time) and sleeving the horizontal part of the subframe and moving the ball rearwards. This really would have looked cobby, in my opinion, and it also raised problems of interference with the exhaust. Plus it would be cantilevered into space and not be backed by anything. We were kind of at a stand-still, but instead of cutting and welding, we walked away for a couple days.

    When we came back, a solution began to reveal itself. Tom had found a Steib bell and jaws weld on mount in his cache of sidecar parts. We had that clamped on the rear ball like so:

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    Too bad we just can't weld something from one to the other, right? Problem solved. It didn't seem very elegant, however, and wouldn't there be a ton of stress on that rear mount bend, especially in hard left handers? that 90 degree pipe will fold, won't it? Ideally the rear mount should be more or less in line with the sidecar wheel axle, to distribute that cornering stress across the rig, right? We hemmed and hawed. What to do?

    We both left the shop. I went home and started some research. I even called Chris C from Eurotech and asked his advice. Chris knows his shit and has seen a lot of sidecar scenarios. I was having a hard time explaining the situation, however, and we decided he better speak to Tom himself. So no ideas there at the moment. I went to work that following Monday feeling a little discouraged.

    About midmorning I got a text from Tom. He was at the shop. I gave him a call. He said, "It's done". Huh? "I just welded something from one to the other, like we thought in the first place." Ha! Another crisis narrowly averted.
    Tom's a bull by the horns kinda dude.

    I stopped at the shop after work and saw this:

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    Gaaahh! Not very pretty, is it? Does the trick, though. Two lengths of 1/4" thick steel angle coped to the bells and welded along the edges to form a box. We'll scribe and measure everything and see how it holds up under use. I suspect it will be fine. I'm so confident I'm going to go ahead and finish paint this beeyotch!
    #36
  17. Rafiki

    Rafiki Some Dude

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    If I Recall Correctly.
    #37
  18. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    ...or stripping at least. I schlepped the frame back to my house and got it up on an old galvanized cart I scored out of an alley. People throw away the most useful stuff! I got out the drill and brush again. This time I just knocked off the loose paint and rust. I was out of the Dad's zip strip anyway. I figured any paint that was still adhered after 40-50 years wasn't going anywhere now. I used the metal ready etcher, and liberally coated the whole frame in black POR-15. POR-15 only chemically bonds and prevents rust in contact with bare metal, but over old paint it will still provide a super durable protective coat. I put it on with a bristle brush and it was a little drippy, but screw it.

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    I worked a late night trying to get this done before the weekend.
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    I had the appropriate soundtrack...
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    The next afternoon I scuffed up the POR-15 and sprayed the whole shebang with Chassis Coat. It dries to a velvety black semi-gloss, and is supposed to be almost as hard as powder coat. i was pretty happy with the end result. The finish paint makes all our mods look more like they were factory manufactured. Maybe a little, anyway...

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    Finally I loaded it all back up in the truck for the final fitting.

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    Getting really close now!
    #38
  19. ghostryder

    ghostryder Long timer Supporter

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    :lurk
    #39
  20. dirtypumpkin

    dirtypumpkin "Monster Truck Bike" Supporter

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    Sweet project, thanks for sharing all the pics.:freaky
    #40