Can some kind folks please help a complete beginner to gps out? :)

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by New2Moto, May 2, 2014.

  1. c-m

    c-m Long timer

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    Nope I mean maps.

    For example if wanted a decent topo map of spain that works down to a decent zoom level I know where i can find one but it's in a format that only Garmin devices can read.

    Edit: hadn't look at that video. Did you upload that for me? :-) I tried Locus Free and didn't come across any high quality maps. The maps section is much more sparse than shown in your youtube video
    #61
  2. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    yes sir, just for you. :-)


    after you install locus, install 'map tweak', and more maps Will be provided. the list of online maps isn't perfect, not will it apply to everyone's local, but it's an xml file that anyone can edit to add or subtract map sources.




    or

    if you want to use your Garmin formatted maps, try oruxmaps. it supports some Garmin map types.

    both orux and locus maps support kmz overlays, which is pretty awesome.
    #62
  3. c-m

    c-m Long timer

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    Good stuff. Cheers.
    #63
  4. EnduroRdr

    EnduroRdr Woods Racer & D/S Rider

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    New2Moto, I have read through this entire thread this morning and came away with these observations.

    Grab a beer (or cup of coffee) I tend to ramble, sorry for writing a novel here, I guess I was board this morning - :lol3

    1) Your first request was to have some simplified explanation of GPS use with bikes for someone:

    ..........................
    There were many great replies that explained some basic GPS terms and their uses.
    I'd like to add my opinion, Expanding on that aspect for you. Bare with me and take another gulp.

    Tracks, a Track as best described earlier are bread crumbs (a marked trail that is laid down as one travels along a path on the map). Tracks don't care if you are traveling on a road or across the prairie and through the woods to grand maws house. They just drop a place marker every so often and connect those place-markers - lets call them "points" with a line drawn between them. (the frequency of the bread crumb points is determined by setting within the GPS - and most units allow you to configure these settings) you may want one every so many feet or you may have it auto drop based on time. Most folks don't ever chang these settings - at least not on the GPS unit, you also have the options to adjust them in the file after the fact. Read on:
    It is a good time to bring up the fact that some units have limits on track points. In other words you may have a great track with 8000 points in it and when you share the GPS file with a buddy that has an older unit, he may not be able to load the file because his unit has a 500 point limit per track or something like that. But that can be fixed when you upload the file into your PC - you have options that allow you to convert the count to a lower number. I always convert my tracks to 500 or less when sharing them on a forum for just that reason. The garmin pc software has a feature that eliminates redundant points as first priority - in other words when going in a straight path it will eliminate those redundant point first. No sense in having 100 points going down a long straight dirt road, think west Oklahoma or Kansas because the track will still have a line drawn between the points on the map anyway so you can have the same path drawn with 2 point that originally had 100 points in it. The optimizing feature in the software will keep the points close together when needed as in curves that are along the path so that your lines are more true to the actual path you traveled.
    By now you have figured out the biggest advantage here with tracks is that your path does not care where you go, it just leaves a trail along the map view for you as you travel. So when someone shares a "Track" with you, you have a line to follow along on the "Map" screen paying close attention to direction of the path. That beings us to the down side of Tracks. If you are following a trail or track along the prairie that is a Track already loaded on your map, you have to pay real close attention to the map screen or you could miss a turn. When that happens your track is locked to the map so it could disappear if you travel far enough off path without seeing your mistake - then you stop and find the track and get back on "Track". You can't advance to the "Turn by Turn" screen like with a Route to see where the next turn will be. Just a part of living with Tracks.

    Routes (like explained earlier) are paths that the GPS unit will generate on the fly trying to get you to the next designated point - be that a Waypoint, a Viapoint along your route or the final destination of the route. There are good and bad aspects with routes. Routes will always attempt to follow the road to the next point. The road may not be exactly the same on the map as in real life. (Example a new road that is not on the version of map you have), when this happens it will try to send you another way around to get there. We have all experienced this with the Car models: WTF Lola, I can see the road ahead but you want me to turn here? The best example of this in Dual Sport riding is when you want to cross over to maybe a short cut but the path you want (or need everyone else to take) is not registered on the map as an approved path such as a road the GPS maps recognize as real road. Maybe it is new construction, maybe it is a private road or just a trail that is now a well traveled 2-track path. Whatever the reason it is not recognized, the GPS will send you some crazy way around to get you to the "Next Point".
    The good part of this feature (and why it is the preferred method in car units) is when you're traveling in town, it will auto correct when you miss a turn to get you there just using the next available road or recognized path.
    I know most of this is common knowledge and probably boring to most folks: just take another gulp, remember I was board this morning :lol3
    Anyway this auto routing is usually a nightmare in a group ride of guys riding spread out (not seeing the guy in front of them) cause when someone missed a turn it all gets Effed up! Take into consideration that not everyone has the same version of maps files loaded, so some guys will get a signal to turn on the next planned turn some will not maybe because the road was in a newer version of map set than they have - or maybe they have a different brand of GPS and maps (all these guys using cell phones etc.)

    That's why it is usually common courtesy to include both Tracks and Routes when sharing files on a ride forum. And on top of that the really good guys that plan shared ride paths will include waypoints for Gas, Lunch stops, or other POI's (points of Interest).
    ..........................

    2) Then we determined your budget (around $400 or preferably less):

    Here I will interject my personal opinion:
    There was discussion earlier about Car models VS as you called them "back country gps model" otherwise referred to as "Handhelds".
    If you look at the handlebars of most bikes at a group ride you will see that the vast majority of GPS units will be Handhelds. At least that is the case at a dual sport ride event. I guess at the Goldwing national rally and Poker Run events you probably see a lot of TomTom or standard Car Units used. But because of the ability to save and share tracks as well as routes - your safest bet is to stick with a Handheld unit. While your looking at everyones handle bars, you may also notice that most guys used the Garmin brand GPS units. That's not to say they are superior to Magellan or other brands, Im just pointing out that Garmin has majority market. So when you are asking you buddy for tips, if he has a different brand, the tips may not work for you. You will also find more supporting information on forums for Garmin units.
    For a simpler life - I suggest you run with the crowd and my personal opinion would suggest buying garmin.

    If you want to cheap out and try to use your Cell Phone App, Im not saying that is a bad idea, but finding support will be a little harder, and it may or may not have the same features as the regular handhelds. Maybe that's not important now, but it may be a factor at some point in the future: Like when you want to go meet up with the other 80 riders that are going on a group ride with a shared GPS file. Think annual spring AR500 in Arkansas, or any of the KTM National Dualsport events. Most of these rides were created using a standard handheld and most of the time it was a garmin unit. So often the files shared may be the proprietary .gdb format used by garmin, but most of the time it will be the universal .gpx format (BTW Garmin software will allow you to save your files in .gpx also: and there is a bunch of other software out there that allows you go convert between many formats). I know guys that don't even own a GPS unit that download the files, convert them to .kmz to open them in google earth, google maps etc. Or then may convert them to be loaded on a cell phone app.
    I just suggesting that your life may be a lot simpler if you just purchase a standard garmin handheld and get a good mount - like RAM or Tourtech etc. to protect it.

    Take another gulp - Im still going :lol3

    There was some discussion about power connections. Yes I have witnessed a USB power failure on a buddies GPs unit. But he is hard on equipment so maybe he brought that on himself. I have also read on a few forums and in a moto magazine that usb power is a weak point. Some garmin handhelds use a 4 pin port that has a nice rubber water restraint plug. Not sure about the newer models but this was the common power port on the older garmins. I guess that is more food for thought when making a decision.
    My personal GPS is an older 6-7 years old Garmin 60CSX unit and has the 4 pin rubber plug for external power from my bike battery - I can attest that I have never had a failure with the plug and it is water tight at least in rain and splashing through river beds.

    I started this section 2 with your budget of $400 or less.
    If you want brand new - it will be tuff to find a good model GPS unit for under that - (exception the special sales tomorrow which you have to camp out in from of the store and bring your brass knuckles with you to have a shot at the 5 units they will have in stock). So you may have to pony up a little if you want new.

    My suggestion here: Considering your newer level of exposure to the handheld world, would be to buy a second hand unit first. It was suggested earlier to look at the 76 line of garmin units. Those are great units. And the basic software - be it PC only Map source (the older garmin software) or the newer Base Camp are both free downloads. Yes this is just basic software that allows you to see only major highways and allow you to share files between your handheld and your computer. You will still need some map software. But if you are shopping fleabay or Amazon, CL, etc. You will see bundles that include mapping software included.
    I use a garmin 60CSX, I've had that unit for about 6+ years now. It is still a viable unit that performs well, I have had no failures (well I did finally break off the little loop for the wrist strap on top) but I never used a wrist strap and it has no effect on performance. I have RAM mount and I use the older Mapsource software on a windows machine. I have 2008 TOPO maps and Streets North America 2012.

    My suggestion is to find a used 76 or 60 series unit to get you started:
    You can find these bundled with software (and often a RAM mount and an external 12v cord included) for around $100. Separately you would pay a LOT more - look for a bundle!
    .........................

    While we are talking software I feel I should point out a few differences in how they operate.
    At least with Garmin products - Routing is performed drastically different between types of map products.
    When you route a path using the “Streets” versions of software, it performs like we are all used to in the “Car” models. It will calculate a path based on the roads it know exist and it will factor in the setting you selected “Fastest” or “Shortest”. In other words it may tell you to go out of your way to get on an interstate to get to your final destination even though there is a side road that leads to the same destination because it factored in the side road speed limit is only 25 mph for 10 miles but if it send you 3 miles out of the way but you can travel on an interstate at 70 mph for 12 miles to the same destination that is only 10 miles away, then if figures you will get there faster taking the longer path as opposed to taking the more direct route when using “Shortest” setting (and yes speed limits on surface streets info is loaded in the map software).

    But the biggest point here is that it takes you on a path that follows a road (regardless if you go the long or short route).

    Now when you are creating a route while you are in a TOPO product, the routing function is performed differently. TOPO (Topographical Maps), when they entered the digital world of GPS they were originally intended for the hiker minded individual. The concept here is that the person using TOPO usually has the ability to travel in any direction he chooses and the most important aspect of a route to him would be a direct path to the next point in the route.
    Therefore when a route is created in TOPO it tries to direct you straight across the tundra to get there. That is the case with my 2008 TOPO and Mapsource.
    Not exactly the best option for someone on a motorcycle in some cases. When you’re crossing the prairie or long sections of 2 track in Kansas or Navada it usually makes little difference.
    The newer Basecamp or TOPO maps may have settings to allow you to follow roads - I will let some other people that are well schooled in the newer products validate this or not.

    Tracks - make no distinction on the maps. Tracks are just as described above - a path of points laid out across the map and it doesn't care if you are using TOPO or Streets.
    Probably another reason most D/S guys prefer tracks - they will display the same path on every bodies maps the same.

    Observations I have found:
    I almost always used Streets map sets. I have found that even the tiny back country county roads show up on my version of streets - I have had 2 track roads with face slappers (branches hanging all over your path) making you think you are on a cow trail through the jungle show up as a legitimate road. One trip in Arkansas showed a county road that most riders would have turned around on it rather than follow it.
    The great thing about that is if you had “Routed” a path. it would show up correctly and give you the added feature of looking at the “Turn by Turn” screen. Information that sometimes is good to have. I often look at the “Route’s” next turn to see I don't have to worry about getting off this path for another 3 miles, that way I don't have to spend as much time looking at the track on the map screen and I can focus my attention on the road and its hazards ahead knowing I got at least 3 miles to just follow the road before a I have to decide which way to turn. Just on observation - grin.

    If I download a shared file that has only tracks I usually also create a route. The thing about that is you already have the track on the map to follow so if I run both modes at same time, I still get the pop-up notice that a turn is coming up ahead if there is an intersection which tells me ahead of time which way to go. And if there is till any question I have the track on the map to follow. Like when there is that short cut through the woods that is not a real street :evil

    If you are given a route you can create a Track in Mapsource. There is even software out there that can convert the track to a route or the other way around for you. I have done it both ways using software or creating it right in the map software on the PC.

    You will want to play around with it anyway to gain these skills.
    I can't speak to the cell phone apps and how all this works with them. Maybe its just as good?

    Ok you have probably finished that beer by now (maybe 2) :lol3

    In summary - bet you thought I would never get there!
    MY suggestion is to get a used 76 or 60 series garmin bundle with software to get your feet wet.
    There are plenty of guys out there that spent 800 bucks on some fancy GPS system and find they really just follow the crowd when riding. If you find later that you really need a “New” GPS with more bells then you only invested $100 bucks to learn with. And you can always keep the old one to loan your buddy on your next ride. Or sell it - by the time you get to the $100 level you have pretty much bottomed out the depreciation market, you can always get most if not all your money back if you need a bigger better GPS system.

    My unit - 6 years old now and still going strong.
    You can find a used gamin 60csx with maps for around $100
    [​IMG]

    If you still want to learn more tips and tricks, Here are some references for you:
    Most of these have great links within themselves:

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=619167

    http://ridedualsport.com/forum/index.php?board=76.0 includes some tutorials

    http://home.windstream.net/catfish/GPS/

    http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/gmaptogpx/

    http://thegrampus.wordpress.com/200...-track-to-google-maps-an-how-to-guide-update/

    http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/

    https://sites.google.com/site/gpskevin/adventurerides/trans-america-trail
    #64
  5. New2Moto

    New2Moto Been here awhile

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    Thanks a bunch Endurordr!! Amazingly informational read for a newb like me..I hope you know by showing your willingness to share so much info you have unwillingly applied to be my gps guru :D expect some PM's in the future lol

    Are the topo sets usually the preloaded maps on hand helds and the street sets to be purchased extra?

    I like the idea of getting a used for $100 to learn on if the skills will transfer if I eventually upgrade. Where do u recommend looking for one? I wouldn't wanna spend $100 on one that is fried or something.

    I know what you are sayin about the county roads, everything is mapped over here more or less so I think street sets and routes my work well for my area without getting confused :D

    on another note I was comparing all the model of montana on garmins site and it seems they are almost idenenticale except for a gps camera on the more expensive ones and preloaded topo maps on 2 of the 4 models... if they have some good cyber deals and I could pick up a new montana for around $300ish that might be worth spendin the extra $ up front

    Thanks again for the info! !! :freaky
    #65
  6. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

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    The hard part about getting maps isn't that there aren't many, it's that figuring out how to find them, which will work with which app/device, and how to load them, and then how to access them on that device, is a mess. Thousands of options and literally every option is done different, and each one takes a bunch of time to sort out how it's achieved. Each map has it's own features that make it good for certain uses, each device handles viewing those maps a certain way. It would be nice if there came to be some standardization with all of this, but that's virtually impossible.
    #66
  7. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    you're thinking about it too much.

    I just dOwnload a map for an area (satellite or topo for off-road) and go ride.

    for on road, osm stuff is very good, current, and plenty of detail for me.
    the closer one gets to a city the more tempting (and satisfying) it is to just Google map it.

    my two cents :-)
    #67
  8. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

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    I think not.
    I think you're thinking about it from the level of expertise you're at, my post was coming from not having that experience yet.
    When digging into this I saw so many options and recommendations with all of them being "the best" route to achieve nav bliss that I had to just stop and pick a couple and forget about the advice basically. Using a smart phone means options spill from the app sources like water from a flat rock. There aren't any real guides on how each one works, just the features they hold dear to their success. I tried at least a half dozen apps before I settled(compromised?) on what I'm using now. I have a GPSMAP 62 and while it will get the job done, with my eyes the screen suks. And, it seemed to prove spending a bunch of money on a GPS really was a crapshoot as far as being satisfied with what you buy.
    But then again, if you don't have much for expectations, then like you say, just paying a bunch of money and riding is maybe the solution. Be dammed if it works in a sensible way. I'm not the kind of person that can do that.
    #68
  9. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    I believe yOu're onto something, and stand corrected.
    #69
  10. EnduroRdr

    EnduroRdr Woods Racer & D/S Rider

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    Better pop open another beer or coffee you might be here awhile - I am digesting some tryptophan leftovers and had more time to kill - :lol3

    Most bundled deals I have seen include the TOPO versions.
    Although I can't speak for how the newest model units store maps, but I suspect that they are loaded on a micoSD. That is how my 60CSX stores map sets on the handheld.
    But keep in mind that you load maps into your PC software also. (at least that's how things are with map source and my older GPS) that way you just transfer the map sets you would need, but these days miniSD cards are so cheap that loading the whole country is on a 4 gig card is very common. I guess that is also why most guys just buy SD cards with the maps on them already. (Garmin no longer sells DVD map sets on their website) SD or file downloads only.
    So here is how my situation is:
    I purchased the map sets on CD (or maybe DVD-rom) anyway the original versions of Streets 2008, 2009, were on CD-disk. The original version of TOPO 2008 was on CD-disk.
    I loaded these on my PC to be accessed in my Mapsource software.With each succeeding free Mapsource software upgrade, the original maps were all still loaded in Mapsource (I suspect this is the same with Basecamp - I have Basecamp on my MAC but I found the functions and interface were all different than on Mapsource - and I was already well invested in Mapsource knowledge that I pretty much don't ever use Basecamp)
    Most guys here that are more up to date than me will use Basecamp as the main interface to transfer data between their handhelds and the computer.
    I probably should spend the time getting more familiar with Basecamp since it is the direction Garmin is going (they don't really want to continue supporting the older Mapsource and have now focused all their attention on Basecamp).
    But for clarity - just think of Mapsource and Bascamp as the same purpose - an interface for you to manipulate your separately purchased Map Sets (as in creating routes or tracks while on a computer) or to be able to download other files as in tracks and routes that are sheared to your PC and maybe manipulate those to your needs - then transferring those files to your handheld.

    So back to Maps - the maps are purchased separately.
    As in my case - (I purchased the originals on CD-disk) - or you can purchase the files as a download (Garmin site etc.). Or you can purchase map sets already loaded on microSD cards.
    Buying the SD cards allow you to just stick them in the handheld and use it right away. You can use your handheld to create routes on the fly but I find it is way to cumbersome that way - kinda like typing your college thesis on your smartphone. (You would want to do that using a word processor.)
    To do it right, do it easy, and have all the manipulation tool at your fingertips, you will want to create Map Files (Routes, Tracks, etc.) on the computer in either Mapsource or Basecamp then transfer them to your handheld.
    So you need the maps loaded on the computer also. That means if you purchase maps sets on microSD, you will need to do a transfer (the other way first) selecting to upload your map sets into Basecamp/Mapsource.

    So in a long round about way of answering your question:
    when you look at bundles of Handheld GPS units with Mapsets, it will usually mean the handheld itself and an SD card with maps. Because I don't think they sell the newest versions of Mapsets on CD/DVD disks any longer. You have to buy the SD or purchased download file.
    When shopping used stuff (like on ebay, CL, Amazon) you may find CD/DVD Disks.
    Note when I loaded my CD/DVD disks - it generates a 25 digit unlock code that you will need if you ever re-load the map sets (as in moving into a newer computer or as in your case if you were to re-load files someone else had already purchased and loaded on another pc the first time. For me I have the unlock codes associated to my "Garmin" id on the garmin site. I suspect that if you purchase used CD/DVD sets you will need that code otherwise it will not validate - this is how they control piracy (otherwise everyone would be just sharing the files and Garmin is too greedy to allow that! :deal)
    Lucky for me I saved those codes so when I got a newer PC I was able to reload everything on the new PC and transfer all the files without issue.
    The upgraded Streets 2012 I purchased was a download.
    When I bought it I purchased it using my Garmin Site ID (nothing more than a user registration kinda like here on ADV, but it has your purchase history associated with it) So on there tied to that ID was my 25 digit code for that file.
    But all is not so great there because, Garmin only supports the last 2 map set files as a "RE-DOWNLOAD".
    What that meant is that when I tried to download it this past summer it was not available. (they had 2013 and 2014 but have removed 2012 - I called and bitched at the Garmin guy and he said basically tuff shit you should be buying an upgrade anyway) I really didn't see the need to spend another 50 bucks for an upgrade - guess I should have opted for the "Lifetime" updated the first time - LOL
    So I had to go back and find the downloaded file on the old PC. That would be a problem if the old unit had a drive failure or I did one of those "Run File" when I purchased it instead of "Save File".
    Lesson there is always "Save the download Files" for install as opposed to just run right off the server.
    I know Im rambling again (take another sip & read on) - :lol3

    In any case I think you can buy the SD map sets or get them with your new or used GPS purchase and just transfer the maps into your Basecamp/Mapsource interface. I really think once they are loaded on the handheld they are tied to that unit (the handheld has a serial number that gets associated with your Mapsource - probably same in Basecamp) and if you associate that handheld with your Mapsource or Basecamp it may transfer them without any codes needed. (someone else can correct me if I mis-stated that here) But I suspect that you will not be able to just load maps on other people's handheld units from your computer - possibly another anti-piracy measure Garmin uses?
    But I do know that you can used your computer to transfer routes, tracks, waypoints, etc. I have used my laptop at campout ride events to load the details of files on other riders handhelds - I just don't send the map files (takes too long anyway), that way it didn't matter what maps sets or what year version they had - they just used the maps already loaded on their handheld. In other words I could send a modified route and/or track that say has new waypoints or a work around for a flooded river crossing (by providing alternate route/track) to my buddies handheld - and if he used TOPO and I use streets it does not matter - the tracks show up same because they are nothing more than GPS points that are placed on the map from based on satellite signals. As a matter of fact, it they don't have any maps loaded, the track will show up correctly anyway, they would not be able to see the county roads they will be crossing or traveling down but they will have a series of dots along a track to follow. All they have to do is zoom down to say the 500 ft. or 800 ft. level and just follow the dots.
    Now when you have different map sets (like TOPO vs Streets - or no maps on your handheld) it will likely effect how a route is displayed because the roads it tries to follow may be different The route will not work with no map on handheld because it has no roads (other than big main highways) to follow. Hence, always use tracks as the de-facto path to take when there is a discrepancy in the direction on a shared ride.
    In my case I separately purchased a blank 2 gig miniSD. I have transferred all of the south and midwest states (basically anywhere that I think I would ride my bike) onto that SD using the transfer function in Mapsource. That SD stays in the handheld (therefore those states are always available should I travel to them). It is the same function you use to load tracks and routes. The data in the Tracks/Route/waypoints files is small so the transfer usually just takes about 10-20 seconds. It is the map sets that take up all the file size. You do not need to transfer Maps every time you do a upload or download between your gps and computer. (the first time you transfer about a gig of maps - it will take about 20 min anyway so you don't want to do that ofter since maps files don't change) The only time a map file changes is if you purchase an update - like I did twice for my North America Streets Maps, you do not need to transfer that data over and over - its already on the SD on your handheld. The tracks, Routes, and waypoints just used are just GPS points that are shown on the maps.

    All I can say to that one is - buyer beware! I have purchased some 300+ items off of ebay and had only 2 bad deals - but I usually never take a chance on someone with negative feedback or low number of feedback.
    Its a risk but I would not be afraid of it if feedback was good and they attest to its function that it was tested good in the description (maybe even a picture of it operating).

    As I said before - almost never use the TOPO map sets any longer, and I always load both tracks and routes when following someone else's ride. Usually I may have to make either the track or route myself and save it into the file but once you do a couple it is easy using the Track or Route Tools in Mapsource (I suspect it is same in Basecamp)
    So when I follow or lead in a group ride I will give the track top priority if there is a discrepancy (as the track is already laid to on the map) But I like having the popup turn by turn warning that you can only get from a route also - that's why I always have both tracks and routes along with waypoint loaded in my files.

    Here you will have to rely on the advice of someone that used these newer products. One thing I will point out is that the newer GPS devices all get their external power through a mini USB port. the older devices like the 60 and 76 series have both USB and the 4 pin ports. The 4 pin is a nice rubber basically water tight seal. Just an observation.

    Example of the power cord I use:
    [​IMG]

    It plugs into the 4 pin plug shown here on the back (the pic shows all the ports on a 60CSX including the USB)
    BTW you can also power a 60CSX through the usb port as well - that's how I power it in my truck!
    [​IMG]

    Here is a review of that unit compared to some modern models - a good read!
    http://www.maptoaster.com/maptoaster-topo-nz/articles/60csx-review/garmin-gpsmap-60csx.html
    #70
  11. 5 Hour Butt

    5 Hour Butt Been here awhile

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    Location:
    Earth,West of Chicago
    Since I bought it from Garmin it was rather nice since it was $599.99 which is a really nice price for such a good GPS with lifetime map updates provided! If you consider the cost of map updates back before I had lifetime updates I was spending money for the map updates each year which made the overall cost much higher than that. :deal
    #71
  12. webmonstro

    webmonstro A Aventura Continua....

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,113
    Location:
    Portugal
    Thats still like halve of what i paid for my whole bike!!!!
    And you call that a deal?

    Sent from my GT-S5570
    #72
  13. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Oddometer:
    6,933
    Location:
    Carson City/Ridgecrest
    If you can not see the most popular GPS in use by dirt riders, why not spend your money on glasses?
    #73
  14. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,159
    Location:
    Elmira, Oar-agin
    Because it's a problem with colors and shading. Haven't seen glasses available for color blindness yet.:wink:
    #74
  15. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    9,376
    Location:
    alabama
    having no experience with color blindness, i wonder what style of map works best for you ?

    i'm assuming high contrast is a must - but then what ? topo ? hillshade ? minimal landmarks ?

    dunno :)
    #75
  16. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,159
    Location:
    Elmira, Oar-agin
    Generally it would be a lot better with more contrast and/or resolution. The biggest problem is in a forested area of the map and at night or in deep shade. A good amount of back light would make a big difference, as would lighter color options in the 62. Plenty of darker colors onboard.
    When running the OBDR I found it best to turn off the maps in dark areas, and use just the track.
    #76
  17. NickW1

    NickW1 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Oddometer:
    371
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    HalleFuckinglujah! Thanks so much EnduroRdr for posting a clear concise answer to the OP question! So often techies reply using terms that are not understood by laymen, but you provided definitions, step by step directions and clear common sense advice. The fat lady is singing with regards to this thread.:clap
    #77
  18. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    9,376
    Location:
    alabama
    edit: screwed up the formatting completely. i'll try again tomorrow
    #78
  19. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Oddometer:
    6,933
    Location:
    Carson City/Ridgecrest
    Yes my color blind (red/green very common) friend always changed the color of my tracks (Dark Green, Dark Magenta) to Blue, Black and others he could see better.

    Do you run with back light on?

    What maps are you using? Not much color on R & R or CN.
    #79
  20. 5 Hour Butt

    5 Hour Butt Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    155
    Location:
    Earth,West of Chicago
    List price is $599.00 which isn't too bad since you get the lifetime map updates included at no extra cost.
    #80