Canister Removal

Discussion in 'Ridiculous streetbikes with 6 CPUs and too much HP' started by Deviant, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. Its not Ginger!

    Its not Ginger! Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Oddometer:
    719
    Location:
    Oxford, UK
    With the canister in place how does the bike vent?

    On my Euro 1190 I do not have one, I am getting a newer 1090 that I think has this rubbish in place and would want the space back.

    On my 1190 I think fuel fumes just vent out the top of the tank, and over-filled fuel comes out of a pipe at the side of the bike, is the tank on these bikes sealed so both excess fuel and fumes go into the canister - and if so where do they go from there, that canister cannot hold much and if the tank is now sealed surely pressure would build until it blows up - or is that what the valve does and allows a blow if if the canister goes over pressure?
    #41
  2. kaertner

    kaertner Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Oddometer:
    887
    Location:
    Europe
    The fuel vapour is redirected back into the fuelling system to get burned as that produces less toxic emissions than venting straight into the atmosphere. I like the emissions control, it lets us enjoy biking while making an effort to limit pollution that would otherwise be much greater. I'm waiting for Euro 5 before I think about changing my SA as that will limit emissions even further, which is a great thing. Everyone should be making an effort where possible and the fact that some are irresponsible and don't care isn't an excuse to follow suit.
    #42
    Jason4 and tmark1301cc like this.
  3. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,776
    For some us, that ride more than 20 minutes from a service station, we prefer to have the space under the seat to store tools and spare parts.
    #43
    GibbonsMonkey and Whiteyez like this.
  4. kaertner

    kaertner Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Oddometer:
    887
    Location:
    Europe
    Well, it's easy to clip or strap a small bag to the rear seat or even where a very small rucksack. I think reducing emissions when possible are more important than that very minor inconvenience.
    #44
    Wookee and Jason4 like this.
  5. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,776
    That's super. So stop trolling this thread, grab your fanny pack, and go save the planet.
    #45
    Lewilewi and Delnari like this.
  6. kaertner

    kaertner Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Oddometer:
    887
    Location:
    Europe
    Yet another intelligent reply, hilarious or more likely just very sad.

    At least I asnwered the OP's question rather than spam here with 'angry little man' comments.
    #46
    Wookee and Lewilewi like this.
  7. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,776
    1) I'm the OP (Original Poster).
    2) You did not answer my question.
    3) If you meant the guy you quoted. You didn't even answer him correctly. The Evap can has a vent on it, not all the vapors are returned, the excess get's vented under the seat.

    But please, keep contributing...
    Photo-09.jpg
    #47
  8. Delnari

    Delnari Tom

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Oddometer:
    624
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    After reading all the threads and watching the videos on removing the SAS I going to just sit this exercise out until my bike gets through the initial 12 month warranty. Once KTM doesn't care about fixing the shit that breaks, I won't care about pulling a bunch of stuff off in the name of saving weight and gaining some performance. For now, I'm just getting to learn my new 1290 and it seems just powerful enough for me as is that is until I become tainted by repeated exposure to it.
    #48
    F650Dakar_Norway likes this.
  9. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,776
    The evap can won't affect performance at all, the weight savings is negligible, and it wont impact your waranty. It's really just to reclaim the space under the seat.
    #49
  10. kaertner

    kaertner Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Oddometer:
    887
    Location:
    Europe
    Yep, I will and you are wrong:

    "When the engine is running, the fumes are vented back into the fuel system"

    http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/...missions-impossible-what-euro-4-really-means/

    The effect is to stop most of the fuel vapour entering the atmosphere as I explained in my original post, non gets 'vented at all. The charcoal absorbs the vapours when the engine is off and then wne it's started the vapours enter the fueling system and get burned off during normal operation.

    Now you've also learned something today, maybe that's a first for you.
    #50
  11. tmark1301cc

    tmark1301cc Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Oddometer:
    919
    Location:
    Chicago Suburbia
    You guys are hostile as shit. We all love our bikes (if not GTF out) so take a deep breath and enjoy.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    #51
    F650Dakar_Norway and StuartV like this.
  12. StuartV

    StuartV Motorcyclist Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,934
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    Do you have any actual data on the total, worldwide difference in emissions between bikes with no charcoal canister and what it would be if all bikes everywhere did have the charcoal canisters?

    I have always been under the impression that the total amount of pollution that comes from all motorcycles everywhere was a tiny fraction of a percent of the total amount of pollution that is generated around the world every day. I.e. if you cut motorcycle emissions in half, the overall difference to the environment might be something like going from 0.02% to 0.01% of all pollution.

    If there is data to show that cutting motorcycle emissions would actually make a real difference to total, overall worldwide pollution, it might change my personal attitude about it.
    #52
  13. tmark1301cc

    tmark1301cc Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Oddometer:
    919
    Location:
    Chicago Suburbia
    I do not want to be confrontational regarding this issue, but I would suspect that the data you're looking for does not exist. My next statement on this matter.....every little bit counts.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    #53
    Lewilewi likes this.
  14. tmark1301cc

    tmark1301cc Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Oddometer:
    919
    Location:
    Chicago Suburbia
    I may decide to get rid of mine eventually as well. I will in turn accept responsibility that I took part in the destruction of our planet; regardless of the (perceived negative) impact. Justification is easy, we may not be around to gloat or guilt. My kids may be around to accept the consequences.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    #54
  15. StuartV

    StuartV Motorcyclist Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,934
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    I don't, either. And, that's kinda what I thought, but since kaertner said pollution would be "much greater" without the emission controls, I thought maybe he knows about some data I haven't seen. Without such data, I would think emissions would be "slightly more".

    After all, a well-tuned and properly running bike will generally have fairly complete combustion. And our gas tanks don't really vent very much in the way of fumes on any kind of frequent basis.

    But, I am definitely open to being educated on the subject. I strongly believe in leaving things in a better condition than you found them and that should include our planet, too. But, there is a limit to that. When I camp, I pack out my trash, but I don't spend time trying to repair and regrow the grass that was damaged by pitching my tent and sleeping on it. I will tie the rope for my hammock around a tree, even though I know it will damage the bark a little bit. Etc.. I've always been under the impression that a motorcycle charcoal canister was more like that - tying your hammock to a tree - rather than, say, throwing all your beer bottles into the woods and leaving them there. :)
    #55
    tmark1301cc likes this.
  16. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,776
    You are SUCH a genius! Or at least you would be if you had any clue at all. The evap can 100% vents to atmosphere. It has to dumbass.

    I know english is your second language so here's the one I pulled out of the SAR.

    The top are the in/outlets (tank and Purge). The bottom is the pressure release/fresh air. When the engine is pulling a vacuum it's also taking in "fresh" air. When it's not the tank vents to atmosphere. You can literally blow through the thing plugging any one hole with almost no resistance. I know, I did. Maybe when you get a bike with an evap can you can try it yourself?

    MVIMG_20180105_143742 (Medium).jpg
    MVIMG_20180105_143755 (Medium).jpg
    #56
  17. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,776
    Here's the one from my multi. Same deal. In, out, vent. Except Ducati didn't stick it under the seat and were thoughtful enough to route the vent line to the bottom of the bike.
    MVIMG_20180105_143819 (Medium).jpg
    Notice how I never removed it? I don't actually hate the planet, I just want my storage space.
    #57
  18. kokos79

    kokos79 Nomad

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,352
    Location:
    Greece
    Come on, in that perspective transportation emissions don't even come close to power plant and heavy industry emissions, so what? For cars we now have Euro 6, which is forcing manufacturers to produce cleaner engines. This in turn leads to smaller displacement supercharged engines with very low consumption while maintaining same levels of performance. It's a win-win.

    The canister is a thing for bikes mainly because of the fuel tank location. It is almost always positioned next to/wrapped around a very hot engine and exposed to the sun even when the engine is not running, thus producing a much higher amount of evaporated fuel fumes. Also, not all bikes have it, for example the Honda Africa Twin doesn't have one, presumably because the tank does not get nearly as hot as the ones on KTM 1X90s.

    But yes, every little bit counts. I've seen dramatic changes in my country's climate during my 38 years on this planet, as I'm sure you have too.

    That being said, I removed the canister as soon as I brought the bike home from the dealer when I bought it. I'm not proud of it, but then again if EU or any other governing bodies wished to actually make a difference, they would push manufacturers to find a more suitable solution than sticking a very easily removable over-sized tampon under the seat and calling it a day...
    #58
    tmark1301cc likes this.
  19. tmark1301cc

    tmark1301cc Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Oddometer:
    919
    Location:
    Chicago Suburbia
    I agree with you in the fact that the effects are negligible (per bike) ; it is the compounded effect that counts. If all persons take our stance, what happens? I am just rambling at this point, and I am just as much to blame as the next guy....but I get the point.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    #59
  20. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,776
    Well, yeah. Point was it's not a "closed" system.
    #60