Canister Removal

Discussion in 'Ridiculous streetbikes with 6 CPUs and too much HP' started by Deviant, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. GordonFreeman

    GordonFreeman Gamer Super Supporter

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    Glad you found a solution that pleases you. I think people should follow whatever their consciouses dictate. I’m pretty sure my neighbor’s two stroke leaf blower emits far more greenhouse gas in a season than my bike will in it’s life. If someone wants to go off on the canister, it would be reasonable to assume that person has given up pleasure riding entirely, since every little bit helps.
    #81
  2. E-town dirt dude

    E-town dirt dude Been here awhile

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    Totally off topic...nice to see a Half Life fan. :) I also have a Gordon Freeman profile.
    #82
  3. GordonFreeman

    GordonFreeman Gamer Super Supporter

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    Ya, still waiting for HL3 myself. Like waiting on the 790 ADV, now that I think about it.
    #83
  4. Its not Ginger!

    Its not Ginger! Been here awhile

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    I think this is even more true with Cats (not the animal) which require tons of raw rock to be dug up and processed to extract a tiny amount of the precious metals they rely on, combined with the fact they quickly lose efficiency and probably never pay back the environmental cost to produce them. I also wonder how long this charcoal filter works for - and again does it re-pay the environmental cost to produce.....

    ....not that the law makes actually give a shit about pollution of the planet, they just want to keep the smog down in their own cities, a very short sighted and short term plan if the overall harm globally exceeds the savings - sooner or later all that pollution is going to spread from wherever all this extra crap is being produced / the raw materials are being dug up from.

    I think the KTM location is the real problem here though, if they placed it somewhere more sensible I would not care less, but like others I want the storage space back.

    Still confused on the connections though, so do we have:

    1. Tank vent into canister
    2. Return to engine for burning
    3. ????

    Is this a vacuum control for the return or a vent to fresh air (after going through Charcoal) there seems to be some confusion here.

    I still think the true vent pipe will need re-routing (so as to not fill up the rear of the bike with flammable fumes) the return to the engine blocked to prevent mucho fresh air being sucked in all the time and maybe something done (or not) with the third hose.
    #84
  5. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

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    Both.

    When the bike is running it needs the vent to pull the fumes out of the canister. The tank is sealed so without the vent it there'd be no air flow.
    When the bike is off the fuel can still expand in the tank, does not take much to evap gasoline, so the vent serves to releases the pressure after it's passed through the carcol.
    #85
  6. Its not Ginger!

    Its not Ginger! Been here awhile

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    Ah, I think I see, a simple vacuum from the engine which opens a valve to permanently suck anything in the canister during running, and when the engine is off it springs back and allows the canister to vent to atmosphere.

    So I need a screw in the vaccum tube, another screw in the tube from the canister back to the engine intake and then to re-route the tank vent tube somewhere safe.

    So block off two and re-route one.
    #86
  7. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

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    There are only two tubes going to "Tank" and "Purge". The third "Vent" nozzle on the canister is not connected to anything on the SAR/SAS. Re-route the tank line, plug the Purge line.

    Attached Files:

    #87
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  8. Its not Ginger!

    Its not Ginger! Been here awhile

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    Excellent - thanks.

    Sounds fairy easy to remove and re-fit which is exactly what I was hoping for.
    #88
  9. Paul S

    Paul S Been here awhile

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    Got round to doing mine today - simple enough to do and now have room for tool kit and tyre plugger kit :-)

    Got one on my R Nine T as well but happy to leave it alone as it does not get in the way :augie
    #89
  10. Its not Ginger!

    Its not Ginger! Been here awhile

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    Where did you route the tank overflow, was looking at mine today and thinking "it has to go!"
    #90
  11. Paul S

    Paul S Been here awhile

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    Hi Rasher

    Pulled it out from the back of the bike until just before the front of the tank and then looped it along the left frame rail over the oil filler cap and then along the other pipes that go down that side of the engine - if that makes any sense! Left the "purge" pipe in place and just plugged it off and left it in the tail. All fairly Obvious when you start pulling it apart. Also recon I could put it all back in about 10 minutes if I wanted to.

    Good to have the space back under the seat :D
    #91
  12. Its not Ginger!

    Its not Ginger! Been here awhile

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    Cheers, but I don't fancy having to take off the bodywork and tank just to get a tiny bit of space.

    Too much crap under there on these bikes with multiple fuel lines, sensors, switches etc, plus it has crash bars which I guess would also need pulling off so will end up being a whole days work for me just to get a bit of room back with the risk of the bike not firing up due to something being dislodged. At times like this I do miss the Jap bikes, they may be a bit boring but they are really easy to work on.


    Might see if I can extend the hose and drop it out the tail of the bike instead to save the major surgery.
    #92
  13. Paul S

    Paul S Been here awhile

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    All done without removing tank or bodywork!!
    #93
  14. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    I've pulled the canister on every bike I have owned that had one. My wife does mention from time to time that the garage smells like gasoline now. :imaposer
    #94
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  15. Its not Ginger!

    Its not Ginger! Been here awhile

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    Thanks Paul, that is good to know.

    That is how a garage should smell, reminds me of my youth, my 1190 has no canister, neither does my old V-Strom or the Mrs TDM and my garage does not smell so I think modern bikes are much better anyway - all I needed to stink out my parents garage was a FS1E, reckon carbs of the 70's and 80's all generated a lot of fumes.
    #95
  16. RichardC

    RichardC Been here awhile

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    The 'tank' vent tube (central pipe on cannister) is connected to a larger diameter pipe (using a Y-piece) that is one of the pipes in the bundle near the clutch hydraulic mechanism on the LH side of the bike. This is a designated a drain pipe and one of the service intervals is to remove the plug that is at the bottom of the pipe to drain any fuel or condensation that has collected there.
    Therefore, remove this plug with its clamp spring permanently and plug the pipe under the seat. No need to remove any panels or fuel tank.
    You can verify that the tank is still venting by blowing down the pipes - before and after the changes above - and listening for the noise.
    #96
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  17. Cee-Dub

    Cee-Dub introvert

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    Yes, the only adverse effect I’ve noticed since deleting the canister from my ‘15 1190R is the occasional SGS (Stinky Garage Syndrome). This has resulted in a new household rule whereby Badger must be briefly parked outside post-ride until he cools down... not so bad as it often results in more Quality Time for the two of us.

    [The tank vent line, I rerouted to the bundle of other drain hoses. Rather than outright plugging the ‘purge’ hose, I fitted the end of it with a small PCV air filter by K&N so as to not modify the breathing dynamics of the motor while also not creating a potential entry point for dirty ambient air.]
    #97
  18. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

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    I really don't like all the dripping fuel now that the can is gone. I'm looking for a check value like the bikes without the can have. Anyone have a part number or hook up?
    #98
  19. Deviant

    Deviant aka KTM 1290SAdvR

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    Oh, and if there was any doubt that the evap can still vents to atmosphere (@kaertner) here's the KTM diagram.
    Capture.JPG
    #99
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  20. kaertner

    kaertner Been here awhile

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    Yep and that pipe to the 'atmosphere' is to take air in to equalise any negative pressure in the tank

    All EVAP systems must must do three things:
    • Route excess vapors to the charcoal canister
    • Purge those vapors from the canister into the combustion chambers for burning when appropriate
    • Provide pressure relief for varying levels of inner-tank pressures
    It equalizes tank pressure by pushing excess into the canister, and drawing outside air in to fill vacuum.
    To draw outside air in and relieve negative pressure (vacuum), a one-way check valve is typically used. This valve is usually part of another component and not always identified in an EVAP schematic.

    No system is 100% foolproof but the whole idea of the Evap system is to STOP fuel vapour from getting into the atmosphere as it's a major source of atmospheric pollution. Allowing the canister to absorb fuel vapour from the gas tank and then allowing it to vent to the atmosphere would defeat the whole point of the system.