Cannisterectomy Lite

Discussion in 'KTM 950/990' started by furndog, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. furndog

    furndog at least it's orange Supporter

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    Canister-ectomy lite or how to make a short story long. After a near fatal bout of canisteritis I successfully preformed the operation on Willie. Sambo, my riding buddy came over to admire the entrails and came up with an amazing theory.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    I had a mess of hoses, valves, fittings and cans laying in a pile on the shop floor. Sam walked around this jumbled mess several times, picked up a valve and blew through it then sucked on one of the hoses and then threw everything back down on the floor and exclaimed.
    “What the f@#* is this thing?”
    “What thing” I asked.
    “This plug or whatever it is thing”
    That plug is a beautiful piece machined from billet aluminum with a knurled edge, a quality KTM part to be sure.
    “I don’t know” was my reply.
    “I think it’s a drain, a drain for the canister when it fills up with gasoline.”
    <o:p> </o:p>
    It wouldn’t be long before we could test his theory. The next week we were in the <st1:state><st1:place>Nevada</st1:place></st1:state> desert and 100 yards into the first trail section Sam’s bike takes a little nap. Ride report here. Long periods of engine cranking, hard starting and belching smoke confirmed he too was suffering from a mild case of cannisteritis. No mas, no mas, Sam has had it. “What side is that plug on?” he asks. Those engineers think of everything, hence the knurled edge, as you need your gloves on to fish out the plug from behind the hot exhaust header, pull the plug off the hose and drain the fuel and you are good to go.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Now this is just Sam’s theory but it worked for him at the time. His bike was extremely hard starting and after draining the fuel from the system his bike would start on half a crank, like nothing was ever wrong.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    If you are still running with a canister give this a try if the need arises.

    [​IMG]


    That dark spot on the desert floor is from the gas drained when Sam pulled the plug on the hose.
    [​IMG]
    #1
  2. TipOver

    TipOver Been here awhile

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    What year were your bikes? I don't remember seeing anything like that knob on the cannister of my 2005.5. The drain port on the canister didn't have anything on it at all. It vented directly to the inside of the fairing. :ear

    I LOOKED ON THE BIKE & FOUND THE DRAIN HIDDEN ON THE RIGHT SIDE BEHIND THE ELECTRICAL WIRING. NOW I'M GOING TO THE PARTS MANUALS & TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE IT COMES FROM. PERHAPS PART OF THE SAS? MY CANISTER IS GONE ALREADY.
    #2
  3. furndog

    furndog at least it's orange Supporter

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    That is actually a plug. It plugs one of the hoses leading from the valve? diaphram pump? thingy bolted under the air box. It is very hard to find and you wouldn't even know it's there if someone didn't show you the location.
    #3
  4. TipOver

    TipOver Been here awhile

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    That's part no. 44 on page 22 of the chassis parts manual. It looks like if you drop the bike or overfill it the evap canister input lines can totally fill. Since the carb float bowls are connected thru the valve on the bottom of the airbox (valve vents to canister when engine stopped, to bottom under the airbox while running) the carbs can't breath til the engine fires and the valve breathes from the bottom between the cylinders. Your release/drainage of the carb vent lines lets the carbs breath properly enough to let the engine fire.

    I left that valve in place, tee'd to the tank overflow. That's why the drain pug is still in place on my bike.
    #4
  5. posole vato

    posole vato Vato Loco

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    Dagnabit!!!!!!! the canistirectomy lite WORKS.... my bike was taking to long to crank over lately...cuz i layed it down last monday up in the hills......however when i found the hose i removed the little thingamajiggy ...... gee willikers.....gas emptied out ....and it fired right up...thanks for putting up this thread furndog!!!!!!!:clap
    #5
  6. luv2lean

    luv2lean not lost til out of gas

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    Thanks for the tip. I've been putting off the canister removal and now may just forget about it. I've laid mine over a couple of times followed by a day of hard starting. After reading your tip I pulled the little plug and drained a good amount of amber colored gas and goo.
    #6
  7. jsrider

    jsrider Long timer

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    As long as you never kink a vent hose while reinstalling the top-front fairing section.
    #7
  8. Goldhelocks

    Goldhelocks You had me at "2 wheels"

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    Just tonight I was "investigating" a future electrical project (addition of a Centech fuse panel) and dropped the bash plate to access and evaluate a possible wire run from the battery. When what did I find? That same little thingy-ma-jig pictured above. I traced the tube up as far as I could and not having read about that on any of the forums I got curious and pulled off the chrome tip.... low and behold, a fair amount of gas drained (yes I too was once a victim of a canisteritis episode). Even after all of this time I guess some fuel still resided there. Funny thing, I started the bike up and it seemed to start a bit easier (although I really haven't had any real problems. I also notice that it reved off of idle a little cleaner).

    This is a great tip, and an awesome touch of luck! Thanks for the headsup! Gotta wonder why this hasn't been a BIG TIME thread in Orange Crush???

    Rick
    #8
  9. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

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    Actually it's been discussed many times dating back to some of the first canister-ectomy's threads. But its good to see it being revived again for all the new owners. The drain bolt is a quick fix, to get you going, but there's nothing a full blown Canister-Ectomy to really clean them pipes. :thumb
    #9
  10. Goldhelocks

    Goldhelocks You had me at "2 wheels"

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    I have no doubt you are right on that front. I plan on doing my wiring project that I talked about in the thread and doing the surgery at the same time. I just wish I knew about it when I got stranded (ran battery down trying to start the bike due to flooded canisters) a few months ago. I wish I would have known about it then. But I plan on definately doing the surgery soon.


    Goldhelocks
    #10
  11. jnberr0

    jnberr0 Been here awhile

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    I've recently had some symptoms of a canister fuel fill-up (hard starting, smell of gas during startup, etc. . .). I was checking out another post on starting problems when i had this thread recommended. So . . .

    I got home tonight and checked out this drain plug. Sho' nuff, some gassy goop oozed out, followed by a couple of shot glasses worth of fuel. Within a few cranks, the bike was starting fine again, no problem. Woohoo!! There's nothing like learning something new and useful about your bike.

    Thanks for the tip, everyone!
    #11
  12. 1stiski

    1stiski Ride that nasty thing

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    Just wanted to report on this threads helpful information. 2004 Adventure, all emissions equipment on, just some WINGS exhaust. WOW,,, I always noticed this wigit, but never looked any further. Took it off and the hose "pooped" out a 4" long worm of something that looked like "Light Brown Grease". It had a "GAS/OIL" essence. Interesting stuff. I'm going to check this after each ride to see what accumulates. Does this go to:?? Evap canaster? or somewhere in the carb area? Has anyone else tried this for the first time and found the same stuff??
    #12
  13. osteo

    osteo Motion is Life

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    yup, same-o-same-o - as above. No canisterctomy as yet... but after this thread and having the same starting, crappy response from the throttle did the emptied the drain and the same crap came forth! :eek1

    Actually, I was surprised not as much drained out as I was expecting maybe an ounce, but still made a difference. Then ended up laying the beast down again a few days ago, and drained it again - more sludge and much more fuel. I think it is worthwhile to repeat the process a couple times just to make sure it all gets out.

    Simple trail fix for a stupid problem :clap

    D
    #13
  14. ram1000

    ram1000 Long timer

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    Why can't we just remove the plug and leave it out?
    #14
  15. furndog

    furndog at least it's orange Supporter

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    I think that would create a major vacuum leak.
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  16. Chipper

    Chipper Been here awhile

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    I thought this hose went to one of the intakes on the right side. I may be wrong since it's been awhile since did my canisterectomy. This line, with plug, and other line that went to rr corner of air box, to a pin for plugging, were for carb balance/sync. I was going to put mine back on but never did. Fuel could still build up in then since they are on engine side of carb. IIRC they did not go to soilenoid under air box. But I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first or last time.
    #16
  17. TipOver

    TipOver Been here awhile

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    Both of the right side manifold vacuum lines run to the valve (SAS)on the back of the airbox. One to operate the valve & the other to the blind plug. If you remove that valve or disable it the operative vacuum line is plugged with a screw & clamp and then both lines can be used to balance the carbs.

    For the drain line with the aluminm plug: On Pg 22 of the Chassis Parts Manual, see part 10, control valve for carb float vents. The drain/vent line from the valve (drains to canister when the engine is stopped) goes to a "T". One side of the "T" goes to the canister. The other side of the "T" goes to the drain line with the aluminum plug, part 44. :deal That way if the canister and/or the lines to it get plugged you can drain some of the crap from the lines (apparently enough to clear the vent valve so you can get started again).

    NOTE: The left front manifold vacuum port controls the valve on the bottom of the airbox (part 10)
    #17
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  18. Mike955i

    Mike955i Future Escapee

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    Just a quick question about the post-dirtnap re-starting procedure; do you remove the plug just to clear the lines, replace the plug and then restart the bike?

    or

    do you leave the plug out to create a vent line, restart and clear the bike/carbs and THEN replace the plug?

    I fully expect to do the canisteroctomy/EAS project further down the road (bike is 5 weeks old) but have been reluctant to get too adventurous offroad yet because of the risk of being stranded. Appreciate any clarification on this issue. :D
    #18
  19. furndog

    furndog at least it's orange Supporter

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    You may not need to do this every time you tip over, only when your bike displays the classic symptoms of "canisteritis." I would just drain the line and then reinstall the plug. Leaving the plug out and trying to start would create and open vacuum leak. We have only field tested this once but there have been a few testimonials from others leading me to believe that this could be cure for the dreaded disease.
    #19
  20. Mike955i

    Mike955i Future Escapee

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    Thank ya furndog, I appreciate all the good help on this board! Great tip for those of us not de-canistered yet. Have a great weekend.....Mike
    #20