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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by kneeslider, Oct 31, 2013.
Gots them on my Rokon, corners just fine!
Bent out of shape? I'm calm as a hindu cow. It takes alot more than faceless screen names on the interwebs to rile me up.
What specific tire do you have on your bike right now? Are there any moto-gp racers using that exact tire while racing? Bikes have different needs on the street than they do on the race track. Saying that my choice of tire is bad because no one uses that tire while racing is a silly statement and flawed logic.
Money is no concern for me. Like I said in my first post - I had planned on buying a car tire knowing full well, I'd likely take it right back off and put a motorcycle tire on. Now that it's on, I have no reason to take it off. And what specifically am I risking, safety wise? The rear tire affords better traction in all circumstances and no adverse handling.
I don't run a car tire. 'Never have. Neither of my bikes would probably fit one, but I honestly haven't really looked at sizes of available tires. Why do any of the naysayers care though?
Imagineers are wrong all the time, BTW. They also often have to work within many constraints that home builders/modders/farklers do not.
Car tire development is also more advanced in many areas than MC tire development. For example...Many MC tires are not even safe to use or store in temperatures below freezing. They typically are not made with all-season/winter compounds/construction. The rubber/carcass can actually be damaged by freezing.
hell with tread that big you KNOW it handles like it is on rails in the curves. I am heading out to the tractor supply store now to pick me up a set too.
offers better traction than what (and where)? And this is proven how?
Better traction than the motorcycle tires I've had on my bike.
Proven? I'm basing it on my experiences with a motorcycle tire vs. my experiences with a car tire.
Feel free to try it out and compare for yourself.
Thanks for making shit up to justify your comments and opinions.
I have experienced the Flat Tire folly on 5 different bikes.
You should not assume.
I have ridden a Boss Hoss with a Motorcycle tire and then the same bike with a Car Tire. It is a MUCH better bike (if you want to call it that) with the Motorcycle tire.
That said, That is one bike that I think a Car Tire works well on.
Also. Snow/Ice and Long Straight super slab duties on a big bike a Car tire works well. As I stated before: Just as a stopped clock is right Twice a day a car tire works (in a couple of applications) better than a motorcycle tire.
Make sure you do not exceed the less than 20 mph speed rating and do not use them on pavement since every farmer will tell you that they do not last for crap driven on paved roads
Why do you hate people you don't even know? You are telling strangers to convert a proper handling machine into one that does not handle as well or corner as well. That is mean spirited at best and down right evil at worst.
You are jeopardizing others safety with your mythical folly. That makes you a worthy recipient of the AWARD!
Why do we revisit this topic every month? Nobody changes anybody's mind and the same old tired arguments are repeated endlessly.
Personally I am never out to change a dumbsiders mind... I only post to expose the folly of it so people don't blindly buy into the flat tire folly of their parroted myths. (for safety reasons)
YellowWolf will not only ride the dragon faster than most folk here, on a darkside Goldwing - he also is a double darksider. He runs a rear motorcycle tire on the front.
Not clear whether you really want an answer, but if you do maybe I can help.
I have a 2012 Goldwing, and a friend has a 2013 Goldwing. The same level...ABS, level 3. Pretty much identical except color and some bling differences.
He is not convinced on using a car tire for theoretical reasons, so is using a "normal" Bridgestone mc tire.
We rode about 4000 miles together over the summer, one after the other...sometimes one of us leading and sometimes the other. The riding was a combination of slab, twisties and everything in between, in all weather conditions.
It was obvious that between the two bikes mine had better traction in several circumstances, but there was never a case where we noticed the opposite. Typically where he reported loss of traction and I did not have the same loss, it was in water, or slimy mud. The only time I felt any squirminess was crossing a couple of bridges in Wyoming at 5am when the temperature was 28F...ie they had iced over. He felt it too.
My tire is a Michelin Alpin PA3. Both his tire(s) and mine were in the first half of their life. I say (s) as in plural because for different reasons we both installed new tires before the half life point. So, worn tires were not a factor.
The other interesting finding was that because the mileage included an IBA Bun Burner 1500, we had to carefully document fuel consumption. I expected my car tire would cause a significant loss in MPG, but in fact over the 1500+ miles my mileage per gallon was only an average of 0.2 MPG worse...rounding error.
As far as cornering goes I would pretty much always lead through twisties as I went through them harder. He would catch up down the road. Honestly I don't think either of us were at the tire limits, common sense being the first limiter. However, I believe the ct did provide a bit more confidence through a stronger sure-footed feeling.
humans don't need to invent the wheel each time again, we write things down, store knowledge in a computer, tell our kids the earth is round and continue from that point on.
it's great to experiment, once seen a "wheel" on a bike with 8 boots and nothing else, was great to ride stairs, luckily he recognized that that was it.
i have pointed out several safety reasons why not to use a ct without even trying it, fitting, contact patch, severe lack of grip of a winter tire which is used half way down when riding in rain in the summer, wring of tire in corner and i will submit a last one aquaplaning.
the argument of you darksiders that we don't know what we talk about is truth as long as we don't try it. but that is not a argument to use why a car tire is actually better. it is only shouting to each other "mine is better". yeah, sure, we say, we could reply, no you must really really try a mt, unless you really really tried a mt, then etc.....this argument is the same as yours. i hope it is sufficient.
M rim and C tire don't comply, safety argument and truth
contact patch; in this case, size doesn't mater. i explain shortly, take a 7kg rear mt tire, place it on the ground. contact patch is small. take a lign and pull the mt without rolling, over the ground, the amount of force needed stands for grip, if you divide the amount of force needed to pull the tire by it's weight you get a grip coefficient. just for easy calculation we say that you need to pull with 7 kg to move the tire, grip is 7/7=1. take your son/daughter/any body, ask them to sit on the tire and then pull again, this time the contact patch is larger because a lot of weight is added and when you pull you also need a lot more strength just about the body weight in kilo's more. you get 70/70=1. this is no rocket science and in fact truth.
grip of the tire comes from it's rubber and silica content and mixture. contact patch is important for grip but also for heat management, too small could mean overheating for example.
mt uses the inside for it's contact patch, most tires are softer there overing more grip, the smaller diameter causing the bike to slow down which allows the driver to apply more gas to stabilize the bike in the corner.
ct are made to use the outer wall to lean on in hard cornering, not the inside. a bike in straight line uses the suspension to absorb irregularities, in the turn the side wall of a tire is needed to absorb this, so the tire works as a part of the bike which is quit essential. fact
ct and wear, especially for winter ct makes a lot of difference, adac, a German group with test facility, in a country where 200mph and more is allowed in certain parts, testing and safety are taking serious. worn winter ct are no good in rain during warmer periods. fact.
wring and aquaplaning speaks for them selves i hope. (just for those, mt don't aquaplane, ct do)
some nice quotes i found on www where "do i need riding gear? no, only when you crash" and in one line came the ct came along, only when you need a bit extra during your daily ride for safety reasons like avoiding action you will need you mt. one other good part was that a mt is a specialized product, if you would like to compare the price, compare it to specialized ct.
i am still not against you using a ct on a motor cycle but hearing my own arguments i will not use them because i think these arguments are valid, saying i should try will not be sufficient, i will say you try the mt harder and better. just the same argument, i want to hear real world arguments.
seeing the Goldwing Wolf do its thing is good until it last, Honda strictly advices which tires to use, as well as HD.
other point, we had 2 days ago winds with 100miles and someone went out kite surfing on the see, well he came back alive but i don't think it was a good idea.
Wow. You've really got this knack for hyperbole. That's not a compliment.
It is not mean spirited or evil. People can make their own choices. If they choose to see how a car tire feels on their motorcycle, I can assure you that the worst thing that will happen is that they decide they don't like it and choose to put a motorcycle tire on. They bike is not going to explode. And, unless they ride above their own abilities, their safety will not be at risk.
I can dig up at least 2 quotes of you saying that there are instances where a car tire works better than a motorcycle tire. Yet, now you say that that suggesting that anyone tries it can only be done with malicious intent.
Do try and be consistent. It's tough to be an effective troll when you contradict yourself.
Well though out statement. Seriously, I like a good debate when it's done so in good faith and without slinging insults.
There are a couple of misconceptions you've stated, though. I will agree that contact patch alone has little to do with grip and everything to do with the coefficient of static friction for that compound of rubber. Believe it or not, a car tire has a softer compound than a motorcycle tire. I work in the polyurethane wheel and tire industury and have a whole slew of durometers at my disposal. The car tire that is now on my bike is softer than the MC tire that came off of it.
There is a lot of discussion about heat dissipation. I know it's been studied on a goldwing forum and determined that the car tire doesn't heat up significantly more that the MT. I do have a thermal imaging camera.
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It might be interesting to see what's going on a highway speeds. I'll have to do an experiment.
As far as compatibility between car tires and motorcycle rims, it is true that some 15" car tires will not fit on a 15" MC rim. There's a whole spread sheet on the darksider's forum listing what works and what doesn't. My CT went on with very little coercion. Just needed to lube up the rim - same as seating any tubless tire.
You'll have to explain to me what you mean by "wring" though. I think I'm losing something in the translation.
if i may add, safety is mine most important reason to not even consider it.
it is a big thing, i think, to say the worst that could happen is not like it.
i don't no exactly how it works in the land of the free spirited when having a accident with a vehicle which is not comply it's technical admitting letter. i hope you understand my point of view.
and a accident don't need to be your doing. or because of the tire.
but i think this will be pretty worse