Carbon/Kevlar rear luggage boxes.....It has begun....

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by ebrabaek, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Hands down...the post cure (high temp) is stronger.......how much..... Hard to say because of matrix size..... But I will venture out a guess.... 3-5 times stronger..... But most importantly.....trouble with ALL non post cure epoxys... Their stiffness is lowered with elevated heat.... So in a piece with high heat exposure...... a NON post cure will not break.....but have a plastic consistency over 250 deg.f...... Whereas the post cure hold it together until around 400 deg.F. I use the post cure any time I can....unless impractical due to mold....size etc.:thumb:thumb

    Erling
  2. tofire409

    tofire409 Geared up and ready.

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    Hi Erling,

    So I have made the lid mold for my top box and I was going to use your method of securing the lid.

    The question that I have is: how much space did you leave in the mold for the two pieces at the back of the box?

    I was going to leave a 1/2" gap so I could put two 1/4" strips, but then I'd have a 1/4" gap at the front.

    Blair
  3. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    I planned for 5mm all through out........
    [​IMG]

    As you can see....there were places that had a little less.....but 5 did nicely for me. Subsequently the two strips in the back....
    [​IMG]

    Ended up being 4-5 mm thick...... With a little trimming needed. I`l visit your thread and have a look......:thumb:thumb

    Erling
  4. Kiwi Dave

    Kiwi Dave Beemer Boy

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    Some 20 years ago I mucked around with woven and chopped fiberglass for mending surfboards and the sailboat but never got round to sourcing any carbon-fiber supplies. At the time I never really needed them.
    However, for sometime now I have been wanting to build and reinforce a few bits and bobs on my own Beemer. This amazing thread of yours has led me to action. Now that winter is setting in down here I find I have a bit more free time to get stuck into such projects and require a tad bit of help please.

    While spending hours reading through this thread I recall finding a "shopping list" somewhere and have not been able to re-find it ever since. I have found a good supply house here in NZ that can supply everything needed to complete a successful project, I just need to know what all that good stuff is again please. Would you be so kind to re-post the supplies list or re-direct me to where it was posted. Many thanks and bloody brilliant work. You are a true inspiration to all DIY 'ers.
  5. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Absolutely.......I am glad to hear that people like yourself can and will use the info.......Makes it all worth it.....:thumb Page one has been updated to reflect most...if not all the items......Let me know if you have any purchasing Q`s. Post it...if you would please, when you start.....Send me a pm with the link so I can help.......:thumb:thumb

    Erling
  6. Kiwi Dave

    Kiwi Dave Beemer Boy

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    Erling,
    I see in your first page that you mention the need of "High Temp" and "regular" epoxy. Was this mentioned due to the fact the either epoxy could be used? I follow the understanding where extra steps are required to cure the "High Temp", but have you listed the "regular" as an easier alternative or has it been used somewhere else in the built project and I just missed it ?

    Also, could you fill be in on what Nitrile gloves are please. Is this some sort of HazMat disposable glove bought in bulk?

    Many thanks.:rofl
  7. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Yeppers..... I guess it can be a bit ambiguous.... I recommend the high temp epoxy simply for the strength it yields...... But also understands that not all want to tackle the issues associated with the post cure process. Thus listing both for each individual. I did use the low temp for the CF tape along the top edge of the boxes.....simply because it was purely cosmetic....and had no strength added to the box. But since these boxes serves double duty the second being the protection of the bike if it nap`s.....I wanted max strength...... And the post cure stuff wins....hands down. Nitrile gloves.... Are the type of gloves you will see on doctors while operating..... They come in different colors.... Purple....blue....etc. But really...... whatever you have access to will be fine. Just make sure they are tight with your fingers....so you can massage the matrix....without your fingers flopping around inside the glove.....:freaky
    :thumb:thumb

    Erling
  8. Kiwi Dave

    Kiwi Dave Beemer Boy

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    Thank you for the clarification. Just off the phone with my supplier and now have an appointment lined up with him in the morning. Sweet as!

    Let the building begin!!

    Now if I could just figure out how to pop a few pics on the site I would be all set to document the build.

    Any help in this area would be most appreciated as well.

    Regards.
  9. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    You first have to host them.....upload them to a online server..... I use photobucket.... But are not particularly impressed with them.... Any will do, and most are free. Then you just click on each image from the online hoster's website.... Which copy's the image location.... Then in
    your thread click on the insert image icon...... And paste the online address in there..... Your done.
  10. macadamia

    macadamia XK Red 27 Technique

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    I heard on the grapevine (but do not know for a fact, so this may be total bullshit...) that the person who started advrider.com also started smugmug.com. It seems pretty spendy at first but once I saw how much I was missing out on using photobucket, I jumped in. Some people have a $5 discount code in their signature for smugmug.

    check it out if you like...
  11. 'Flagger

    'Flagger ..this space for rent..

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    Not bullshit at all. Baldy owns both. Support Baldy.
  12. macadamia

    macadamia XK Red 27 Technique

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    That's what I thought, my source (er, mr grapevine...) usually has the correct information...
  13. Kiwi Dave

    Kiwi Dave Beemer Boy

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    Erling,
    I have been busy the past few weeks having a go in the workshop with the CF and E-Glass. It was twenty years ago when I last played with this stuff so I have started out on very small projects to retrain myself in the techniques needed to make it all work.

    So...I have decided to have a go at making a CF front faring and have used the OEM part as my mold. Plenty of coats of mold release wax and then two coats of PVA release agent. So far so good.
    Then I began with a first layer of epoxy on the mold and let it sit for a few hours to go tacky before laying up the first layer of CF. "good thinking Batman". And it worked like a charm. As I carefully lay the CF over the tacky epoxy everything stayed in place and did not move as I applied the next layer of Epoxy.

    However, this is where I ran into a problem. :evil

    During the curing air bubbles started to form between the first layer of epoxy and the release agent. Big bubbles. It was like some kind of heat reaction happening in the epoxy formula and the heat escaped wherever it could. unfortunate in this instance it was between the composite and the mold. bummer. :huh

    I am using exact measurements of the epoxy/hardener and even add a little heat to the mix to help remove the tiny air bubbles that occur during mixing so I thought I was covering bases by doing this part correct.

    Any suggestion or solutions??

    Photos of the project to follow once I get my head around the posting process.

    Thanks,

    Dave
  14. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Dave....great of you to start..... As I am sure you can de-gas the matrix....
    A few questions first...... as materials don`t behave the same..... What epoxy systems are you using.......?????
    Release agent..????? Is your epoxy requiring post cure?????.... How many layers in the matrix..??? First these.... Then we will go from there....:thumb:thumb

    Erling
  15. tmotten

    tmotten Lefthand ride Dutchy

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    Awesome thread. Can't believe I only just came across it. Can't believe the bond between the pannier and the brackets is strong enough to hold it all on the bike.

    I never thought of the roller to apply resin. Might try that.

    My biggest question is related to choosing the thickness of the overall laminate. For us noobs, how do we determine that, is there a rule of thumb?

    Other question is that of preventing large off cuts. Would it be sensible to make it out of 3 pieces instead of 1 and using say an inch overlap? I'm painting my part which is a fairing so finish is not a big concern. The side of the fairing that wrap around the forks produce a large off cut between the 2 sides and of an awkward shape to reuse on another part where you get an overlap anyway because of this shape.

    Last question. Using carbon/kevlar and finishing the edges. Given the sanding problems of the kevlar, what would be the best method for creating nice straight and rounded edges on the fairing?
  16. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Sanding Ballistic Kevlar....brings you to tears.....:D and I have seen grown men loose it.... and ....ummm.. weep..... Belt sander........V E R Y light pressure..... patience..... so the resin does`nt overheat....and you will succeed.....

    Fairing you said...... If you have`nt already seen this.... Have a look....

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615213

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605282

    :thumb:thumb

    Erling
  17. bxr140

    bxr140 Flame Bait

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    You'd be amazed at the strength and durability of structural epoxy. :deal
  18. Kiwi Dave

    Kiwi Dave Beemer Boy

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    Erling,
    I'm finally back into the workshop today a plugging away at the carbon fiber fairing. That's the nice thing about this sort of project is that I can do bits and pieces as time allows. I always try to put at very least a few hours aside when I know I will next be pottering around with the various workshop projects.

    Getting back to your question about my inquiry...
    I am using West Systems Epoxy 206, West Systems Hardener 105, Rexco Partall Film #10 ( Green liquid goo release agent), and Norski Mould release wax. The matrix is made up an E-Glass twill and CF is a standard 6 oz. twill.

    The bubbling took place when laying up the first layer of E-Glass on the mould. Subsequent layers added to this have not had the same bubbling problem, just the first layer against the mould. I now have two layers of E-glass, three layers of the carbon fiber twill and now that I have removed it from the mound, sanded it back and cleaned it up a bit, a a layer of Cabon/Kevlar weave is being applied to finish the structural integrity and give the finished fairing a unique look. I'll likely add a couple of small squares of CF on the underside of the fairing where the mounting holes will be drilled out. This could end up being over kill but I'm a bit pedantic like that.

    This brings me back to the de-lamination problem. What do you think could have caused the gas bubbles in the first place and what suggestions could you please share to avoid this happening again.

    Many thanks,
    Dave
  19. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    The 206 system is not a post cure system.......and such.... the degassing would not have been caused by the temperature elevation. Here are a few suspects....... First batch mixed with too much catalyst....which enhances the chances for thermal runaway.... Even if it does not reach melt down.... It can still elevate the temps so that small bubble stirred during mixing will expand during curing. If you mix the epoxy and the resin reaches 35deg. C..... It enhances the runaway chances.....But the warmer temps makes the resin more viscous.....thus de-gassing the mix better/more.... But don`t go above 35 deg.C. POOLING of resin..... can cause same runaway......evidence is the same as the first one. If the bubbles are localized ...( concentrated in a low spot) then it was just a fluke.....which would explain why it did not occur subsequently....... Remember a 33/66% ratio...(33 being resin....66 fiber).......And mix it accurately........ and control pooling......... I think you should start a thread......with pic`s..... That way I can follow easier...... and......ummmm....... Need pic`s.......:thumb:thumb
  20. Kiwi Dave

    Kiwi Dave Beemer Boy

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    I sort of thought this myself to some extent but it never made much sense until you just spelled it out.
    It was in the first layer that I was free pouring the two part epoxy. Well I was using the kitchen digital scales but all the same I very easily could have mixed a "hot" batch.
    Since, I have had a the pumps on the bottles and this takes all the measure and guess work out of it not to mention time.
    Now it's a perfect mix every time.

    About the thread idea, I would love to start a thread but I have yet to sort out the whole photo upload thing yet. Have tried several times but I don't seem to have the right file format for this site.:huh

    Thank you for taking the time to help. your advice has put me back on track.:D:D

    Dave
    NZ