CCM 450 Adventure

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by ktmmitch, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Drumbrakes

    Drumbrakes Been here awhile Supporter

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    I've got a couple of thoughts:

    Strange that it takes so many attempts to get it going? Did you just hold the starter button, or did you give a little throttle?
    I wonder if there was something wrong with the fueling or ignition signals from the ecu, maybe a loose connection on a sensor?

    Or perhaps the bike battery was sucking in the power to charge it's self for the first few attempts, and not enough voltage available to start the battery.
    the batteries do seem to drain easily, but also recharge very very quickly.

    Mine hadn't run for 2 months while being shipped. and the tracker had run down the battery properly.
    Mick took a charged battery and pressed it against the fitted one and it started after several attempts. It only ran for a couple of minutes, with no throttle, so bike battery not really recharged.

    I started the bike again yesterday after another 2 weeks with a micro start booster pack and that also took a few attempts.

    I'd like to get a volt meter on the bike as it's started. Can the Li-Po battery keep the voltage up as it's cranking, or does it drop to a level where the ecu doesn't fuel or spark properly?

    Older Land-Rovers use coils intended for less than 12v (don't recall the exact voltage). They are wired through ballast resistors on the coil which was bypassed when the starter motor was running. This meant the coil could still get its ideal voltage when the starter was drawing a lot of current from the battery, and the voltage drops.
  2. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

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    i dont think long lay offs dont do any bike any good when it comes to batterys although uk weather is not the best ..it is rare that i dont use a bike at least once in a ten day period .....id think that if your planning on months in sub zero temperatures a trickle charger may be a good idea on a five month lay off id dffinatly remove the battery and drain all feul from the system

    ten starting attempts just isnt right it obviously not the battery ..there must be somthing not quite right in there ..if you loose faith in a bike its the time to sell on or trade in i reacon ..when you loose trust the relationship can only go downhill

    hope she behaves herself now .you .keep threatening it :scratch:lol3
  3. OM

    OM Owners Manual

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    Hijack.... How does this bikes engine compare in the butt dyno with a standard 650 thumper or a 690 lc4 based engine?
  4. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

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    [
    ill have go at trying to explain it as best i can ..
  5. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

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    wow hard to answer .. in a nutshell ... revs ..it needs them it thrives on them ..its a very different ride than a 660xt or klr ..husky 630 ...totally different

    it has a slow action throttle which can fool you early on ..make you think its abit gutless ..but it comes in very handy if you make a mistake on a steep climb it doesnt spank you ...paw the air or kick out at the back its very good lower down ..engine room more power please ? ....ok coming up :thumbup

    ..you need to twist the wrist ....the faster it goes the harder it pulls ...it is as standard on par with a seteo or xt660 speed wise ..probably a bit quicker off the mark ..it has good luggability going slow ..and with a bit of clutch is pretty good on slow going ..but trying to be realistic you will always be doing 70mph compared to 80mph on the superslab to keep the bike where your ears say it should be ..

    with the power upgrade its a very quick bike .. quicker than most 650s to 60mph id say .. the standard ccm has 6300 revs at 70mph ..sound s a lot but me drz had 7300 up and wa near the redline at that speed ...... and it s comfortable there .. pleanty left for quick overtakes ..top speed around 90mph ...it does move pretty well ..but id say it should be kept top a practical cruising speed of 70/75mph but if you want to enter the hillbilly grand prix it will play with a 650 no trouble ..id get past most 650s exiting slower bends as its proper quick when its in its sweetspot .. it bobs on a bit .. it pretty exiting to ride ,,suspension and road handling are very very good steers beuitifully ..one day il fit some decent road biased tyres ..always have knobs .. but even on shit tyres it does well on the road
    hand on heart same rider ... plugged up it will run hard with a 690 or a 630 on real world twisty roads it has a hooligan streak in it .. i wouldnt swing me dick too far from side to side but .there wont be much in it .. even if it gets gapped by a 690.... thats no disgrace for a 450 motor giving a 240cc head start ..but you have to rev it hard to keep up ..if you dont like revs it just wont do for anyone that cant adapt to the higher beat of the bike .... the motor will never get away from its origins and if you try you will thow the baby with the bathwater ..any one looking for short shifting effortless tourque bobbing along at 4000 revs is barking up a very very wrong tree ..thats not to say its slow or lethargic its just something that responds to gas and revs ..it also has loads of low down touque ..4th gear 25mph will chucg on if you feel lazy ...just let it rev use a bit of common sense and shift before it gets manic and it wil boot along much faster than my tyres care to play ..therte is a certain point where the motor then kicks and runs very very hard and you then leaving seteo and xt terortory along way behind ..but you have to climb high to get it..they are through the tourque and just revving where the ccm just gets stronger and stronger right through to the redline ...
    ive never abused me ccm ..but ive never bee frightened to let it rev and rev high .... and so far the motor has never hinted that its starting to wear..to quantify this ive only had the full braaap version 6 weeks it retains full waranty but it does add a dirty streak to a aready trail fit bike

    at the other end the touque has lifted a lot it has real guts low down ..clutch is needed but only in a nudgy sort of way

    al this sounds pretty imature tbo in reality most of the time my bike is in the boon docks where 60mph you get a nose bleed ..ive spent many weekends and some weeks where getting over 60mph is a novelty ..where in real terms the bike is almost sleeping compared to what it has left ....but if i have to put a 250 mile shift in .. its more than up to it ..4 hours job done

    my main reason for the ccm fasination is the low weight balence and magagabilty turaroundability , dabability and picupability .. im 60 next year and 200 kgms bikes are out of my comfort zone ..and she is so light to handle..good ridrs would have good time on the ccm ..but novices ,,dwarfs and fat old men can enter too :loco

    ..speed or average speed is not my main priority ..but it doe braaap a bit :muutt
    i do still have a pulse ..well last time checked i did :hmmmmm

    keep well :beer
  6. Romanis King

    Romanis King n00b

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    Hi Minkyhead
    I'm off to see my potential CCM 450 tomorrow and was wondering how you have found the new suspension compared with the 1st bike. Richard
  7. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

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    theres not a lot in it ..ive personally found that the w/p are softer set softer sprung or valved than the marzochis ..thaey were a bit more abrupt on high speed compression when the wick was turned up ....
    the marzocchies were set near the softer end of the preload ...where the w/p i now have the preload just one turn from full ..this is much much better than how they came set for me ..very very plush on slower going rocky stuff very nice on the road too ..they are on the plusher side of things rather than stiffer and overall this is a good thing 95percent of the time ..you have to be jogging on a bit to notice or provoke the front ..but it is there

    i like them ..but personally have found they are much better with preload up there is a very noticable difference..i cant remeber where the compression clickers were ..i believe ive actually reduced compression increased preload and decreased rebound.. i cant honestly remember as i was pissing about for a couple of hours

    i just keep runnung the same cartrack ..it has some fairly deep potholes and a few speed humps built out of rubble and hit the same hit until i was happy .but .the single biggest improvment was the increase in preload ..that was immiediatly noticable ..i guess you cant set the suspension for everything but all in all it rides very well
  8. nordicbiker

    nordicbiker Been here awhile

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    Before I used the car battery to jumpstart the bike, I had used the bikes own battery for many attempts. I tried at least two times until the battery was so low that the starter motor could not crank the engine any more and the battery needed recharging. Interestingly I had seen the same problem, that it takes many attempts to start the bike, after a standstill this summer when I had needed to replace the rear tank (again) because of a leak. CCMs explanation was that there could be some air trapped in the injection system, the bike actually started after I "flushed" the fuel line up to the injector, so I can't say if this was really the same problem.

    The interesting part is, that when I gave the bike a bit of throttle (with the bike battery only supplying power) the starter motor could almost not crank the engine! Can anybody explain this? I would guess that opening the trottle will actually open the flappers, so less restriction in the intake and an easier job for the starter motor. Or do I get something wrong?

    I will contact CCM again on monday to discuss this with Chris. Warranty is running out in April and I might not use the bike before that, depending on how this winter will be. I't like to have some statement how CCM plans to handle the same issue after that. I rode the bike to the car wash hall yesterday and it started several times without any problems. So now the battery comes out again (my garage is unheated and temps in Sweden can get REALLY cold), then I will give it a try again in a few weeks.
  9. Drumbrakes

    Drumbrakes Been here awhile Supporter

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    I'd think it's the other way around. Opening the throttle allows more air into the cylinder, which then has to be compressed by the force of the starter motor. It would turn more easily with the throttle closed.

    However I think it is more likely to be the "characteristics" of the Li-Po batteries, which sometimes seem reluctant to push out the required amps even when they should be well charged.

    I'm tempted to try a standard lead-acid for a while to see if it makes a difference, but can you get one that is up to the job and fits in the same space?
  10. magwych

    magwych Been here awhile

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    In standard tune they often need a little touch of throttle to start. I find that if it does not start on the first touch, then it will not start at all unless the throttle is opened a tad.

    Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk
  11. Pepperbox

    Pepperbox Been here awhile

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    Stretching the legs on the bike with full performance upgrade has reduced mpg to just over 43mpg. Managed to get 18 litres in after the fuel light came on so guessing I had 10 to 20 miles left. I'll have to learn to ease off a bit...

    I now have a creaking noise from the rear suspension. I degreased and re-oiled the chain. Guessing I may have got some degreaser on the linkage for the rear spring?
  12. magwych

    magwych Been here awhile

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    The linkages use a nylon bush on the pivots, which should be dry. If you lube them, the nylon will swell. When it swells, the holes become larger and you get play in the linkage. DAMHIK
    You may just have some creaking from where the spring face bears on to the lower retainer, or pre-load collar. How bad is it?

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  13. Pepperbox

    Pepperbox Been here awhile

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    Thanks. I thought the linkage would use nylon bushes. I can't track it down to a specific location. Almost any weight shift produces a creak. Initially, I thought it was from the forks but I'm convinced it's from somewhere near the lower part of the rear spring or linkage. Nothing seems loose and while I've hopped a few logs, I don't think it's taken any big hits. I have only cleaned it with a hose recently so no pressure washers. I might try to give the spring a wiggle.


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  14. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

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    mine is deffo on the thisty side since the upgrade ..theres no way fuel consumption has improved thats for sure ..ive never got to 150miles before the light comes on ..where as before it was 185/90 ...trip is on 147 miles at the moment ..so this may be my best tank ever

    suspension linkages on the old bike were worn at 10000 miles ..not exxcessive but dffinate play ,,,when i got the new one i decided to grease the likages with molcote polymer plasic grease whih i did .. me plan is to redo them at 5000 and see if theres is a improvment ...cant say one way or the other for now..also check the swingarm isnt to tight as they can be stiff if overtourqued
  15. magwych

    magwych Been here awhile

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    I had my altered mapping checked on a dyno at a Dynojet centre. The AFR was in the 13.5 - 13.9 range, which they said was "still quite lean". They reckoned I should aim for 12.5 or less. If that is a nornal PCV target then I think it will drink a lot more fuel.

    Regarding the swing arm pivots, I found that the 2 parts tend to rorate out of alignment before you hit the correct torque. I use a thin spanner (32mm I think) to hold the inner half as the inner bolt is tightened into it.


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  16. messes

    messes Adventurer

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    Urm, I don't think I'd use those guys to tune my bike if that's what they told you. 14.7:1 is the ratio that is aimed for best power, economy balance, the higher the number the leaner it's running, as that's more air to fuel. So if anything 13 is running slightly on the rich side and to be fair pretty close to optimum power.

    http://www.endtuning.com/afr.html
  17. just jeff

    just jeff Long timer

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    From the article in the link you posted:"The AFR for maximum power is usually between 12-13:1, depending on how well mixed the vapour was beforehand."
  18. messes

    messes Adventurer

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    Yep and it would have been running around the 14.7 if not slightly higher to meet emissions. Then you have to consider the optimum engine temperature plus the "depends on" items, more fuel will reduce engine temps which may potentially lose power as it's no longer burning efficiently. I think the question with those figures is how much of the potential maximum output of the engine is being produced with that AFR. If it's within a BHP of 12.5 is it really worth it for the economy loss.

    These guys did some PCV work on the G450X engine with different exhausts and posted the charts, they seemed to get the best results around the 13 mark. So I'd think that 13.5-9 is within the ballpark.

    http://www.hexcode.co.za/products/g...th-full-akrapovic-system-and-powercommander-v
  19. Bayner

    Bayner Long timer

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    Uhm, apparently not. Though I have a photo I can't seem to get a URL that will freaking work. I miss the days when you could just add a pic. Simpler times...

    https://1drv.ms/i/s!ArG4uqc-4jWlkBMbWlT48hgnKDYK

    Guess that will have to do...
  20. Drumbrakes

    Drumbrakes Been here awhile Supporter

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    The Tapatalk mobile app has a handy "add photo" button, works either from any saved photos you have, or direct from the camera.
    Here's your photo.

    [​IMG]

    That's very clearly a breather hose going through a new channel to a new connector not present on older tanks.

    Thanks for sharing that.
    Bayner likes this.