CCM 450 Adventure

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by ktmmitch, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Rohan Rider

    Rohan Rider n00b

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  2. Rohan Rider

    Rohan Rider n00b

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    Ok first timer on here so please be gentle with me.
    I have had a CCM GP450 in my stable for almost a year now and I have been trying to get a tacho working on it - yes laugh if you like, because I have changed the gearing somewhat and want to know what is going on rev wise.

    Picking up on where better and cleverer people than me have been, I started this exercise at completely different point and tried going for after market add ons rather than getting into what pins do what on the head unit although I have now explored some of that as well if it is of use to anyone see below. Anyway, I have had a lot of fun taking bits off and trying different things but still no working tacho - unless you count the ones that say my starter motor cranks at 9k and tickover is at 12-13k. However, I am now trying to build an electronic signal divider based on a CD4017BE chipset, which in theory I should be able to use to reduce the signal to the rev counter by a factor of 8 or 10 and get it in the right region - although so far this is also proving beyond my skill set.

    I would be interested to know if anyone has progressed further than this or has done better.

    Ok for discussion/information IMO there are at least two hall effect sensors on the bike. The one on the front wheel for the speedo, from which the royal blue cable connects through to pin 2 direct to the speedo head unit and the black and white cable does not seem to despite the same colour appearing there, presumably this picks up power for the sensor.

    The other is the hall sensor is on the alternator which is where I went for picking up a signal when I could not get anything from the LT or induction off the HT for my after market tachs. Not surprisingly as the alternator has 12 stator coils and even more permanent magnets so I am getting a lot more frequent signal than I really want from there and although I considered mounting another hall sensor inside there, I thought better of it as it is in effect inside the engine and not really somewhere to start trying to mount a loose magnet. So this is where my frequency moderating chipset would come in, if I could get my head round it.

    The other interesting? thing is that the wires from the crankshaft hall sensor do seem to connect to the speedo head unit. The light blue wire which comes from the sensor is continuous electrically with pins 1,2,18 and 19. Whilst the green wire is only continuous with pin 1, which from the schematic in Magwych's post above seems to be the positive 12v. I haven't really thought about what this mens for me yet, it was more of an exploration to see what was going on with the existing rev display, or lack of it. Is it my imagination or does this read maximum bars as soon you turn on the ignition?

    Ok not sure what I am expecting, but just thought I would see if there is anybody out there still trying with this issue.
    Regards
    Rohan Rider
  3. Drumbrakes

    Drumbrakes Been here awhile Supporter

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    Of course I'll be nice. We all gain from sharing our thoughts and experiences.

    I am however a bit confused.

    Are you basing your comment about pins 1,2,18 and 19 being connected based on a diagram, or testing with a meter?
    Are these ECU pins? As far as I can make out, pins 2, 18 and 19 on the ecu are not used.

    perhaps speedo pins?
    in this case 1 is permanent live and 2 is ground. 18 & 19 are for the turn signal warning lamp. They have partial continuity within the speedo unit, but not full, as that would connect left and right turn signals together.

    If you've been testing with a multi-meter in continuity mode, theses work best with simple electronics, switches bulbs wires etc. as soon as you have electronics like the ECU or speedo involved, readings will not be reliable. An ECU may appear to ground wires for sensors while monitoring for voltage.
    If you disconnect the ECU and speedo unit completely you may get more useful results.

    I've not checked on my bike, but from the CCM engine harness design (written by Husqvarna) and the Husqvarna engine wiring schematic, the Crankshaft sensor has a yellow wire and a blue/yellow wire. Both go directly to ECU pins 23 and 24.

    The front wheel Hall sensor connects to the chassis harness where one side goes to blue, which is a shared ground/earth for the lights and horn etc. (Hall sensors don't require power: the passing magnet causes it to generate a small voltage spike)
    The other wire is black or perhaps white with black. It connects to the speedo dash adapter cable pin 8 (through a diode) and to the ECU via pin 5 on the interface connector (joins engine harness to chassis harness).

    Remember that each part of the wiring uses different colours. You cannot trace by colour between dash adapter cable, engine harness or chassis harness.

    The easiest way to get a working rev counter is with an Android phone (or Garmin Monterra), the Tune ECU app and a bluetooth ELM module and a wiring converter. None are especially expensive, and no changes/risk to your bike wiring. just be careful which ELM unit you buy, as only some work. look at the Tune ECU website for recomendations.

    I got a working Rev counter by fitting a complete aftermarket Speedo unit, and adding an extra wire connected to the ECU ignition feed. (1 spark = 2 revs. my speedo has a calibration option) This also gives a working gear indicator too.

    I'm very happy with it, and I don't think it's a complicated conversion (now that I've figured out the fine details) but it's not cheap, it's not "plug and play", and won't suit most people.
  4. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    How stylish does it have to be? You can get rpm meters that works with a wire around the sparkplugboot.
    I've fitted one to my wr450f which even has the coil built into the sparkplug-boot, no issues.
    Mine is a combined rpm/hour meter.
    roookie1 likes this.
  5. Rohan Rider

    Rohan Rider n00b

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    Hi Jens,
    Thanks for that, yes that was what I expected to be able to do on the CCM even though it has a similar spark plug/coil setup. The trouble is that after purchasing 4 different after market tachos I still hadn't got one working this way except by getting the signal off my adjacent BMW R series with nice sticking out cylinders and plug leads. Perhaps you could link me to the one you used or something similar? Much appreciated.
  6. Rohan Rider

    Rohan Rider n00b

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    Hi Drumbrakes,
    Thanks for your interest.
    Just to clarify, I haven't gone the ECU at all yet, but might consider trying to pick up the ignition signal there if that will work, which pin would I need?

    Pins referred to in my previous post are all at the speedo head and yes I have been using a multimeter on continuity with the speedo disconnected rather than any wiring diagrams, so yes your point about the ECU misleading is valid. I also realise that the looms change colour at connectors, but I stand by the colours quoted for the cables and flywheel sensor, at least on my bike which is a '66 plate. Good point about hall sensors not needing power, it makes it's own as it is a mini generator, I was being a bit thick there.

    FYI the only other wiring I have altered so far on the bike is that to the Power Commander, which had been factory fitted in a stupid place IMO. I have relocated it to a new compartment I have created under the seat so that it can be accessed just by removing this with only one bolt, rather than stripping half the bike down. The reason I did this was to make plugging it in for diagnostics possible, as I am still unhappy with the low speed running despite the aforementioned PC which I thought was supposed to help with this issue. I would be interested to know if anyone has cracked this issue themselves or can recommend where I could take it for possible improvement. I am in East Anglia.

    Cheers
  7. Paul_C

    Paul_C R1200GSA. CCM GP450. Moto Guzzi LeMans II

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    The low speed fueling on mine was never a big issue. However, fitting the Power Commander sorted it by about 70%. I've also fitted a coolant thermostat from ThermoBob. I did so as when road riding the coolant temperature was generally at around 50°, too low in my opinion. A side effect of having a more consistent running temperature is that I can't remember the last time I had any fueling issues.
  8. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    Sure thing, hope it works out for you.
    https://www.24mx.com/twenty-hour-meter-and-tachometer-1#?p
  9. sanqhar

    sanqhar Been here awhile

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  10. Drumbrakes

    Drumbrakes Been here awhile Supporter

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    Um, Yes, sounds intriguing.
    If it was just an hour meter, I'd get it, based purely on vibrations, but it claims engine speed too.
  11. sanqhar

    sanqhar Been here awhile

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    Contacted 24mx re the wireless rev counter. This is the reply.

    Customer Service (24MX-XLmoto-Sledstore)

    Apr 25, 12:24 CEST

    Good morning,

    Thank you for contacting us. I have looked into your questions and unfortunately this item will most likely not suit your needs. The RPM monitor runs off vibrations from the engine and records a maximum and not a live reading.

    If you have any further questions please contact us.

    Best regards,
    Fraser
    [​IMG]

    www.24mx.co.uk
    UK’s largest motocross store


    Tom
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  12. Pepperbox

    Pepperbox Been here awhile

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  13. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    I had a cheap wireless hour meter, but that didnt work out, it didnt "record" the whole time, so I bought the one i linked to a bit longer up in the posts.
  14. Pepperbox

    Pepperbox Been here awhile

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  15. Drumbrakes

    Drumbrakes Been here awhile Supporter

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    Snake Oil is exactly the phrase that came to my mind too, and also entirely unsuitable for our engines with no exposed HT lead.

    I saw a similar things for cars in the 90s that replaced the HT lead from the coil to the dizzy with a new lead with a small lumpy bit that turned one big spark into 5 little sparks.
    The enthusiastic salesman proudly showed us how the spark plug would no longer singe a bit of paper passed through the gap. I was sceptical as I've always thought spark plugs should ignite flammable stuff.

    My mate bought it anyway and we found it did actually transform the engine on his 10 year old VW Polo. It really did make the engine run much better, but not as much as when we tried a brand new OEM lead.
    motorcycle_spark_booster.jpg
  16. sanqhar

    sanqhar Been here awhile

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    The Power Commander has a rpm output. They use it for their Pod Display.

    https://dynojet.co.uk/power-commander/power-commander-v/pod-display

    Tom
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  17. sanqhar

    sanqhar Been here awhile

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    Drumbrakes
    Resurrecting this old thread.
    I have just had the “M” shaped bracket on my GP450 break. I’m thinking of doing your mod as above. How well has it stood up over time?

    How does the mod affect jacking up the bike using the bash plate?

    Great idea. Thanks.

    Tom
  18. magwych

    magwych Been here awhile

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    On a stand, the rear of the guard will be pushing onto the frame crossmember, and the high density foam pushing on the underside of the engine. I think that will be enough to reduce the sideways load on the rubber mounts.

    What about the rear mounts, drumbrakes? With the front now isolated from vibrations, the fixed rears must be freer to vibrate. Some owners have seen cracking around those rear holes.
  19. Drumbrakes

    Drumbrakes Been here awhile Supporter

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    Newer bikes came with a W shaped bracket - 45 degree angles rather than 90 degree, and they seem more durable. (I don't recall seeing them mentioned by the nomads...)

    However my rubber mounts have just passed 10,000 miles and are still doing fine.
    They can be a pain when removing the bash guard, sometimes they rotate and unscrew from the engine, when you try to undo the outer bolt. Some fresh threadlock might help.

    There were no signs of cracking at the back of the bash plate either, when I last had it removed (March). I did originally put rubber washers onto the back mounts, but they seem to have been removed at some point.
    I do think something that allows some flex at the back would be good, but it's hard to achieve without bolt heads sticking out beyond the protection of the bash guard.

    I've jacked it up on the bash guard a few times, and its taken a few hard bashes as well, when I (accidentally) land on obstacles that are too high, but I'm not a trials rider, and I don't make a habbit of it. Mostly it deals with rocks that get flung upwards from the front wheel.
  20. Drumbrakes

    Drumbrakes Been here awhile Supporter

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    With the metal front mount, the bash guard is rigidly attached to the chassis at the v
    back and to the engine at the front. The engine has anti-vibe mounts to the chassis. That means the bash plate is actually restraining the engine from vibrating relative to the chassis.

    I am fairly sure that having more flexible mounts at the front actually reduces the normal forces on the rear mount.

    I did take a lot of care with the sizing of the front mounts and extra washers to ensure the front was at the right height so the rear was properly aligned and there were no bending forces from tightening the rear bolts.