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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by ktmmitch, Jan 21, 2013.
Do we have tranny specs on this yet?
I haven't seen anything different than the standard BMW 450 gears in the 5-speed transmission.
This bike is what many in Spain looking for a light trail with the right power and little maintenance.
What makes this "little maintenance"?
Did they change something?
I was under the impression that the BMW 450 motor is pretty close to all the other 450 enduro/racer motors as far as maintenance goes.
10 hrs between oil changes, 20 hrs between valve checks, 70 hrs overhaul.
I heard somewhere they added more oil capacity so that helps.
Its in the brochure: External oil reservoir - increased volume
Service Intervals: 8000km / 6000miles
Engine setup seems to be the same as in the BMW.
41HP and a plug for full power.
BMW gave full warranty for the 41HP version.
If you 'plug' it to full power you lose warranty on the engine parts.
I did not notice that in the sales brochure, thanks
OK, I get the added oil capacity bumping the oil change interval.
Does anyone know what did they did to get the valve adjustment intervals up and assuming overhaul intervals as well?
i dont know how to get it to appear
i did mention the frame looks like a work of art ...
but heres a video of the new frame of the bike
it does look great in the flesh so to speak
Just read something that might be encouraging for those of us caring about more gear spread. In TBM (trailbike magazine) issue #208 they are doing a story on Simon Pavey's Dakar bikes. His last bike was a Husky TE449 and the artlcle talked about how most of his bike were pretty much stock as he had a pretty low budget.
From page 61 it says,
I could get real excited about a G450X with:
- increased oil capacity
- a 6 speed tranny (at least with the possibility out there)
- better rear shock
- set up in that sexy looking package!
Seriously I think this is the 2nd coolest looking bike out there! (Though I claim to not give a rip about looks, somehow I'm drawn to the 660 terere as the coolest looking bike despite the specs looking pretty bad compared to my 690!)
It is not just about the number of gears, it is about gear spacing and gear spread. It is also about matching individual gear ratios to the torque curve of the motor. You shouldn't expect the same ratios from a 250 to a 450 to a 650.
The BMW 5-speed in their 650's (X-Challenge/X-Country/X-Moto) have a moderately wide set of ratios (a ratio of 3.27 between 1st & 5th), while the Husky TE449/511 have the narrowest transmission made in the last 15 years (2.49 between 1st & 6th).
The BMW 650's were geared as dual sports, while the TE449/511 are geared as enduro race bikes. Different gears for different torque curves and riding styles. I wouldn't want a narrow racing transmission in a long-distance Adventure bike, regardless of how many gears it has.
The traditional response to putting a 6th gear in a BMW F650GS (or a DR650 or a DR-Z400) is that the transmission case isn't wide enough to just add a gear, so each gear would have to be thinner - hence more fragile, and the transmission would be too weak. An entire re-design of the bottom end and cases is required - which is too expensive. You might as well just design a new motor. Hence, the continuation of 5-speeds in the above mentioned bikes.
The BMW G450X has a 5-speed transmission with ratios of: 1st 2.46:1 / 2nd 1.71:1 / 3rd 1.35:1 / 4th 1.04:1 / 5th 0.88:1 - or a ratio between 1st and 5th of 2.80. This is closer to that of a TE449 than an X-Challenge. However this range, if not the specific ratios, is similar to that of a KLR650 (2.86) and wider than a stock DR-Z400E (2.65).
[ref: KTM 350-EXCF 2.97; KTM 500-EXCF 3.18; Yamaha WR250R 3.36; Husky TE610/630 3.40]
If the CCM 450 uses the same primary ratio (I couldn't find the G450X spec at short notice) and 1st thru 5th gears as the G450X, this transmission will be narrower than I would prefer. However, they could very well change gear ratios to come closer to a dual-sport range, which would better suit MY needs. Whether or not YOU are happy in the end will depend on how YOU want to ride the bike.
Ahh... I misunderstood the article. I thought that Simon had added an additional gear to the otherwise stock TE449 engine. So the TE449 comes with 6 speeds stock? And with a closer overall spread than the G450X?
Sounds like the KTM690; I had the 5 speed LC4 and was so excited they added another gear on the 690. But the reality was the spread is closer on the 690's 6 gears than the older LC4's 5 gears.
That was one of the best nerdy replys I have ever read, you sir are a class act. keep it coming.
I think the size of CCM has some advantages.
Thinking back to when the 690 enduro was brand new, I excitedly bought it the first week it was out. Many of us on the megathread were disappointed with the tight gearing. I can't remember who but one of the inmates got a quote from a shop for a complete new set of gears - only problem was he needed 20 of us to commit to $1,500 or so to make it happen. Less money the more committed.
Even at that steep price, have a proper wide ratio tranny was important enough that we would have gone thru with it if we all could have agreed on the ratio.
The DR400 is of course far more popular than the 690 and I noticed recently someone finally made a wider gear set for it but the price was much lower... closer to $600 US if I'm not mistaken.
So my thought on the size of a company like CCM is that for one single person, making a new gear set would be astronomically expensive. For a huge company like BMW or KTM there's too much inertia in their plans.
But CCM, if they knew a large portion of potential buyers seriously valued this could easily beat a run of 20 but aren't so big like KTM.
Wouldn't this be nice. In my mind it depends on two things: What are the designers objectives for the bike? (what are the design parameters?), and does CCM listen to their (potential) customers?
Remember, CCM is based in Europe, where the tunnel vision is always about what are considered to be "short" distances to those of us in the US, Africa, Asia, and Australia.
As I said in a very early post on this thread, a narrow 5-speed is functionally dead on arrival for me, both as a US resident and as a potential long(er) distance ADV rider. [Difficulty in changing the counter-shaft sprocket "on the trail" will also kill this bike for me. Anything more than 10 minutes is too much.]
Very keen on this bike, I think it would suit my needs really well now my XC has been written off. For info I just spoke to CCM and they say they are expecting the bike to come off the production line in September. They still have no distributers for Australia but are looking into it and will keep me updated.
I got this email a few days ago.
You can sign up to be on their email list for updates and stuff. If you guys are really serious about letting them know what you want. Email and tell them. I'm letting them know that I want this bike in America. I think most of us following this thread are Americans in fact.
the final gear ratio isnt known to me yet
th published top speed is 90mph 145kmtrs p hour
which suggests to me this will not be different from the bmw
playing with the gear comander site the stock bmw set up
with a 15/45 sprockets will be spinning at 5600 revs at 65mph
with a rev limit of 8000 that seems a reasonable place to work the engine ....
.. as for long distance .. its up to the individual .im quite happy running up to 70mph on my currant thumpers and am not really interested in going any faster my last long trip was 6500 miles and 70 was my top speed on the spanish toll roads and english motorways i still hit maroc in two riding days s around 950 miles total
on me xt660 and klr i try not to work them over 5000 revs on a7500 limit ....a good one third from the redline seems to work fine for them so will apply the same logic to the ccm ..i suspect there may a bit more fun to be had from revvin that motor harder
but ill apply a bit of dicipline on the long haul
i guess it may be different in the u/s and i totally understand that ..the distances are huge and the need for big superslab miles will be a big consideration .. how about a victory vision with a ccm in the backbox ..i reackon it may fit in
im really not bothered at all ill sit at 60 mph and watch the world go by use the back roads and have the odd little play here and there
its around 1000 miles to north afica and then i rarly go over 50mph ..spend most of my time on the trails and little mountain roads some days not gettin much above 30mph on carty tracks top speed doesnt interst me ..it not why i want the bike..im happy to take the trade off on the tarmack ..for the ability off the beaten track ..
i will be surprised if the ccm is antwhere near as good on the superslab as my thumpers but i tend to spend 75percent of my time off road ..and the big bikes are a real handfull for me so the bias of the bike to off road suits me better
i think if you want to spend prolonged time over 70mph the ccm really should not be the bike you should choose ..
a 650 motor would suit better and probably a f800gs better still ..big big road miles would not make any sense i dont think
on the sprocket point ..its reackoned twenty mins to do the job
so that means the first time it will be a hour ...
but if your bike has a big 32ml nut on it with a folded tab ..you may not even be able to get the thing off without a breaker bar ..
at least its just a retaining bolt set up ala the old xrs so when push comes to shove may be easier for a sole rider to deal with
as the big drive sprocket nuts can be tight sons of bitches .. and near impossible to get off without heavy artilery tools
i was lucky last time istripped 5 teeth on the front sprocket but managed to limp in a 100 miles but if it stopped driving i wouldnt have got it off
i picked this up from jezza on the 450 site ...thank you
1: Undo rear axle nut 30mm socket fits I believe, undo the chain adjustment bolts, 13mm spanner, Remove link from chain and remove chain.
2: Now slide rear axle out and remove rear wheel.
3: Remove the black plastic cap from the RH side of frame where the swingarm pivot is, you will then see a bearing and 22mm Bolt head that is the swingarm shaft.
4: Slacken the hex head bolts that clamp the swingarm shaft, 2x 6mm and 1x 8mm from memory
5: You need to undo this 22mm swingarm shaft while holding the LH side swingarm bearing sleeve, (stainless steel thingy with 2 small holes) this is the trickiest part.
6: Once the swingarm shaft is completely undone, gently tap the 22mm swingarm shaft bolt head from the RH side, this will push out the stainless steel bearing sleeve that is on the left side so you can remove it also.
7: Once the swingarm shaft and bearing sleeve are removed completely, lift the complete swingarm with shock etc still attached just out of where it normally sits and rest it against the frame, (hard to explain, but the round edge of the swingarm will be resting on the frame to allow access to the front sprocket)
8: Undo the 2 8mm sprocket retaining bolts, turn the retaining plate until it slides off the spline, then slide the sprocket off the spline.
Easy as that, doesn't take long at all, hardest part is undoing the swingarm shaft while holding the bearing sleeve. When refitting the swingarm only tension to 8NM, not very tight at all. But you save lots of time by not undoing the rear Ohlins shock at all, just leave it all connected and rest the swingarm against the frame while changing sprockets.
me mate was bit more unfortunate ,, went off piste into a beanfeild
MPG is the only reason why I want the wider ratio gearbox. I'm an American and have to drive 500 plus miles to get to interesting terrain. The roads are straight and long. I like being about to "lug" it at 70-75 mph. I don't want it to be screaming at this speed.
as far as i can tell its 22kms per litre which is 62 mpg impeirial gallons 4.54 litres to a gallon
so 54 mpg us ish
have a look at the gearing comander site
im just presuming its the same ratios as the g450x though
i dont think you will be able to lug at 75mph but i think 70mph is feasable ..its a unknown at the moment
ultimatly i think smaller engine will equal more revs ..or less speed im afraid
15/45 sprockets come ot at 6084 revs at 70mph
a drz with the same gearing
would be 6768 revs at 70mph by comparason