Central Valley Dual Sport Rides more fun good times

Discussion in 'West – California, the desert southwest and whatev' started by dsrider, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. montibank

    montibank Happy

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    Could you clarify your concerns? Your comments make it unclear what your concerns are.
  2. Rippin209

    Rippin209 Long timer

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    The concern being there's more vocal mountain bikers then dirt bikers, the environmentalists don't like either but see the mountain bikers as the lesser of two evils.

    I enjoy the ability to ride the different trails and love the riders that get on here and talk about doing trail maintenance, the trails don't make headlines very often and if dirt bikers are part of that it's because some knucklehead did something embarrassing
  3. montibank

    montibank Happy

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    I'm still lost.
  4. Rippin209

    Rippin209 Long timer

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    They have a meeting on June 11 from 6-7:30pm to discuss. I've heard rumors that the mountain bike community is lobbying to make 007 non-motorized.[/QUOTE]



    I hope this doesn't happen
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  5. montibank

    montibank Happy

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    Ahhh got it.
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  6. JPaccassi

    JPaccassi ...searching

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    That happens to you a lot :lol3:lol3

    I still remember that one time 5 of us were riding the Millwood area & the sun was setting. I was running sweep & I watched you go left when everyone in front of you went right. LOL. Then the sun went down, then your headlight burnt out......we found you an hour later or so doing 2 mph down the road in total darkness. Good times! :D
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  7. montibank

    montibank Happy

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    New house is set as its gonna get for a while... Time for some riding :p
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  8. JPaccassi

    JPaccassi ...searching

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    You're only about 15 miles from Shaver lake now...l'm jealous!
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  9. C_S

    C_S Adventurer

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    Rumors from who?

    I'm in the mountain bike community so I'm curious to know who is making noise like that. There are really so few riders that I have no idea why it would be an issue to share with the dirt bikers.
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  10. rideallday

    rideallday Been here awhile

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    Allow me to clear up a few things. I'm a member of the MTB and Moto community. I ride this area frequently on both vehicles and understand the wants/needs of both user groups intimately.

    The MTB community is not lobbying for 007 to become non-motorized. They are lobbying for the lower 3 sections to be downhill traffic only for all user groups. Most MTB riders don't make it any further than Whiskers Camp and don't really care what happens beyond that. This means that even the MTB riders must ride up the road instead of the trail.

    The main reasons are trail sustainability and safety.

    SAFETY: I know I'm not the only one who's had a few close calls with someone going up the trail (on MTB or Moto) while I was going down the trail. The speeds on these trails are very high and there are a ton of blind corners. Two way traffic is sketchy when there are a lot of people out on the trails, especially beginners and novices. Recently, I almost had a head on collision when I was descending the second section on the MTB and someone was going up it on an MTB. I have close calls like this at least 5 times per year and it's only a matter of time before someone gets killed. It gets worse when you factor in the noise from a Moto and you don't hear as well. A Moto going down and a Moto going up is the worst combination no matter what trail you're on.

    TRAIL SUSTAINABILITY: Anyone who has ridden these trails for the last couple decades or more knows what I'm talking about. The erosion from rain/snow, combined with ZERO trail maintenance besides removing downed logs, really did a number on the trails. The Forest Service has not given official permission to any user group to form trail work days to maintain the trails and it shows. If this trail is officially added to the trail network, that will allow multiple user groups to work together with power equipment to really dial everything in. Moto's going downhill don't really do any more damage than a bicycle going downhill, but the reality is quite different in the uphill direction. I've seen plenty of Moto riders completely ruin various trails by getting stuck and digging holes with their rear tire. This is fine when you're on a trail that sees very little use but it's not great when it happens over and over in the same spot. It's even worse when it happens on multi-use trails.

    There may be a few vocal MTB riders that dislike Moto's but most of them understand that it's better to work with other user groups than to alienate them. Heck, a lot of MTB guys I know ride Moto as well and they understand the safety and trail sustainability issues well.

    At least these trails aren't used by Quadtards.
  11. JPaccassi

    JPaccassi ...searching

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    The only problem I see with this..other than the fact that I love riding up & down the trail :D, is a green sticker trail designation. With Central Camp Rd not being green sticker legal the FS would have to convert it to allow access...otherwise you'd be illegal once you got to the bottom. :hmmmmm...not sure they are going to be willing to do that, but you never know.

    I'm all in for sharing, it's a great trail!..as long as it remains technical & doesn't get "smoothed" out too much :lol2
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  12. rideallday

    rideallday Been here awhile

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    That's a very good point dude. I didn't even know that the road wasn't OHV. They obviously don't enforce that or the fact that the trail is illegal as it is but they would have to do something about it. It seems like their hand would be forced to open that to OHV if they add the trail to the inventory and it was downhill only.

    Trust me, I like riding up that trail more than I like riding down it on the Moto. But, if you think long term, and look at other places in California that are losing trail access left and right, we need to do everything we can to show the Forest Service that people love these trails and they are willing to put in the work to keep them sustainable. I can't believe they haven't tried to close it off completely after this last winter given how bad the trail condition was.

    Luckily, the amount of use it gets and the natural erosion due to the trail alignment, these trails will never be smoothed out too much. And...all the MTB riders that I know and ride with definitely don't want it sanitized. It's mostly about filling in ruts and building waterbars/jumps for drainage to keep the water from running down the trail. Pretty much the same stuff that the Stewards of the Sequoia do on all of their trails to keep them more sustainable. When you have a large trail inventory, it's hard to maintain all of them every year. They need to be built so that they can last a few seasons before needing more work.
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  13. C_S

    C_S Adventurer

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    Sorry, making those trails downhill only is a horrible idea. I can think of few things worse than riding up that horrid road. I'm sure you've ridden it more than me, but it just isn't that crowded in my opinion to warrant the downhill only designation, unless a different uptrack was built, which I'd be all for, and would be happy to help build. Sorry, but only being able to ascend the road is not a viable option.

    And motos going up those trails didn't hammer them, huge rains a couple years ago and almost zero work on them did the hammering.
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  14. rideallday

    rideallday Been here awhile

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    That's a valid opinion. I don't enjoy riding up that road, but I'm only using that section to get to the hundreds of miles of awesome singletrack beyond it. My GPS data shows that those trails represent less than 6% of my whole ride. If you're really focused on riding only those trails on the Moto then you're definitely doing it wrong.

    I'm sure everyone's mileage will vary on how crowded it is depending on how often and when they ride there. I ride up there about twice a week, every week, almost year round. I've already had 3 close calls and 1 collision since April. The close calls were on the MTB because I could hear the Moto going up the trail. The collision was when I was going up the third section on the Moto and another Moto was going down it. Neither one of us saw or heard each other until the very last minute. Luckily we both walked away with only minor injuries but it could have been way worse.

    I agree and even stated above that natural erosion and ZERO maintenance is what caused a majority of the damage. However, you can't deny that Moto's don't do any damage if operated by clowns. I've seen it first hand when some idiot brings his gaper friends up there on their shit bikes and they run out of talent on the third feature. You can see their trail of tears and shit line choices spewed all over the place. The worst part is when they think it's fun to roost up the brand new jump I made off the side of the trail.
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  15. rideallday

    rideallday Been here awhile

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    I should state that I'm not 100% in agreement of making them downhill only trails. I love going up them just as much as anybody and I'd hate to lose that.

    But, what I don't like is having a bunch of methed up trails and the very real risk of a head on collision. These 3 sections see way more people than any of the other trails and that's why I could support a one way trail designation.
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  16. C_S

    C_S Adventurer

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    It's not the riding up that trail on the moto that most concerns me. It is the riding up on my pedal bike. I cannot express how much I hate hate hate riding that road. I might as well be on a road bike. And I loathe that thought.

    don't get me wrong, i do love riding the moto up it, but I've always seen those sections as good fun warmups to all the other stuff out there.

    And I guess I'm not totally sure on where exactly the downhill designation would start.

    Also, if my map reading skills are correct, the trail to be designated is the super chundery one and ignore the current triple section(or so I've heard, I've never actually ridden that particular offshoot)?

    [​IMG]
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  17. JPaccassi

    JPaccassi ...searching

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    Between BP 101 & BP 80 is gnarly & is not the normal trail if I'm looking at the map right...section 3 of 007 should be shown going thru the part of the map labeled Graham Mdw? Also the last section before you come out across from the Shuteye Turn off had a huge log dropped in front it when I was there 1 1/2 weeks ago..what's up with that, anyone know? My bet is that the FS will screw this all up for everyone. :dirtdog
  18. C_S

    C_S Adventurer

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    Ok good, you are reading the map the same as I am. That proposed route for triple makes no sense. I haven't been up on a moto yet this year, too much snow out there to ski on still. Are you saying a log was dropped purposefully across the trail?
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  19. JPaccassi

    JPaccassi ...searching

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    Definitely on purpose...nice trimmed up log right at the entrance to the trail.......though they left a little too much room on the right side :D....maybe they are just trying to keep the 4 wheeled vehicles from getting on it :hide
  20. rideallday

    rideallday Been here awhile

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    It looks like the FS wants to add the trail that drops off the west side at the top of the third section. I call this the death trail because it's caused more gnarly wrecks than any other trail out there for me. My mtb friends call it Octopussy. It's really really hard to go up and I pretty much only descend that if I'm in a hurry to get down the mountain. It seems like they aren't adding the traditional third section to the inventory which is a total shame.