Check out my stacks---Zerodog's fork mods

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Zerodog, Dec 26, 2006.

  1. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    Just to let you know this thread has been a great help to me on setting a starting point for damping in fitting WP Forks to my F650GS Dakar

    Great work & really appreciate it

    Have the 02 rebound valve in the forks I am using so will have to work around that for now but at least I have a base to start from
    #41
  2. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    #42
  3. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    Researching the rebound taps and the variations in them between 01 and 05 I have come up with the info below and thought I would post it here for everyone

    There are 3 variations on the rebound valve and rebound needle common to both 4357 & 4860 models. The individual part numbers, dates of introduction and part numbers are :

    <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cols="4" frame="void" rules="none"> <colgroup><col width="117"><col width="86"><col width="86"><col width="86"></colgroup> <tbody> <tr> <td align="center" height="17" width="117">
    </td> <td sdval="2001" sdnum="3081;" align="center" width="86">2001</td> <td sdval="2002" sdnum="3081;" align="center" width="86">2002</td> <td align="center" width="86">2003-5</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">Rebound tap</td> <td sdval="4860.0025" sdnum="3081;0;0.0000" align="center">4860.0025</td> <td sdval="4860.0151" sdnum="3081;0;0.0000" align="center">4860.0151</td> <td sdval="4860.0203" sdnum="3081;0;0.0000" align="center">4860.0203</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">Rebound needle</td> <td sdval="4860.0003" sdnum="3081;0;0.0000" align="center">4860.0003</td> <td sdval="4860.015" sdnum="3081;0;0.0000" align="center">4860.0150</td> <td sdval="4860.0189" sdnum="3081;0;0.0000" align="center">4860.0189</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
    Complete Units - No complete unit part numbers have been identified.

    The rebound tap changes can be summarised as follows

    2002 &#8211; 4860.0151
    - Rebound adjuster oil entry increased from 2.5 mm to 3 mm
    - Oil exit holes from 2mm to 2.5 mm (possibly 3 mm)

    2003 &#8211; 4860.0203
    - Rebound spring base height reduced from 4mm to 2 mm
    - Edges of nut chamfered for &#8220;mid valve&#8221;
    - Top edge of 8mm shaft for check valves & mid valve chamfered
    - Length of shaft for rebound shims increased

    Have an image of them but upload is failing right now

    One other clarification on the earlier posts re the stock rebound stack, on the 2003 & 2005 stacks a 6x16x0.3 is specified but the ETK does not list a Part No for that shim, only a 16x0.25 so I suspect that is actually what was fitted
    #43
  4. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Wayne,
    Just to encourage you, when I was in Mongolia two years ago I rode with a Dutch guy that had WP suspension on his PD BMW. He said the ride was very good and he had no problems with leakage or breakage.

    He must have had the Touratech package, what rear shock is that?

    FWIW my '02 stacks that I posted really worked out well for me. I used Z-dog's subtanks and his oil level recommendation.

    My bike is lowered so Z-dog set up a special rear shock for me. I also run a Scotts steering stabilizer to good advantage. If you have aused shock I strongly recommend an oil change at least.

    Are you going traveling?
    bill
    #44
  5. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    Thanks for the words of encouragement, they are appreciated

    The TT kit had a WP 250 MM rear shock & it is no longer available apparently

    As for my machine, well it has been well used in Oz & is also one which had the axle mount failure after which I was left with a new RHS and the old LHS. A fork replacement was always planned & now is the time as I have the motivation and it is due for SHB replacement plus I think the lower yoke is a little twisted so it came down to which alternative YZ or WP.

    The difficulty is my beast is considerably lightened over stock & combined weight with rider is 20kgs lighter than yourself or Z-Dog, hence my careful look at springing & valving.

    Am looking at running 0.48 spring with a slightly modified Z-Dog stack & may throw the stack up online. If you and Z-Dog would care to comment any suggestions would be considered and appreciated.

    Am doing a full rebuild on the forks first, waiting for some parts right now & when fork rebuild is completed then I will strip out the old and in with the new, looking forward to is as I know how much better it will be

    Did you update the taps to 03 ? or have you stuck with the same set up
    #45
  6. Gregidy

    Gregidy Been here awhile

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    ok really old post but i need advice I cant find rebound 14 .15 and 10 .3 shims can anyone tell me if i can use 3x .1 in place of a .3
    #46
  7. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    #47
  8. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    Yep, can't just simply replace a .3 with 3*.1's. Wayne's calculator gives the same results as the formula I've been using.

    Where are you getting your shims from? WP/KTM show a 6x10x0.3 as available:

    40540447 SHIM 6X10X0,3

    Also, a 6x14x0.15:

    40540405 SHIM 6X14X0,15

    Cheers,

    Tseta
    #48
  9. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Tseta,
    You can buy shims here:

    http://www.mx-tech.com/

    They slipped them in an envelope and mailed them to me.
    bill
    #49
  10. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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    There's an exception to the substitution table: when the shim is being used as a spacer then you should match the total thickness. In the case above, the 10-.3 shim in the rebound is a spacer- it won't flex itself, but controls when the 14 and 16 shims above it hit the 16 shim below it. So the correct substitution is 3x 10-.1mm shims.
    #50
  11. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    Solid info there, Luke. Thanks!

    -T
    #51
  12. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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    BTW, and I should have posted this when it happened: After a bit of riding with the new valving I decided that the front was too soft, and added two 24-.1 shims to the low speed side of the base valve. It's still pretty plush, but holds the front up a lot better in whoops and stuff. Helps with the brake dive too.
    #52
  13. Gregidy

    Gregidy Been here awhile

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    Thank you guys very much I put .52 front springs in and now way stiff on top low speeds I'm 210-220 pounds and need to sort this before the p2d
    was going to order from mx tech but they don't list some of the shims so I guess ill have to search through feichs rrrr

    Oh and I went to the shim calculator and wtf it makes no sense t me I have never revalved so was just stealing/borrowing your # :) so off to ktm i go

    and it seems some are back ordered
    I would send my suspention away but it is riding season :)

    well 2-3 weeks on the 6id 14od .15 but what do you do coming straight from austria lol
    #53
  14. Gregidy

    Gregidy Been here awhile

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    bottom is low speed right ?? and did you put them in first?
    #54
  15. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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    Bottom of what? :D


    The valve in the bottom of the forks is the base valve. The low speed shims are the ones at the top of the stack, closest to the valve itself.

    I went from stock:
    Base: (6mm ID)
    6 x 24 x .1
    2 x 22 x .1
    2 x 20 x .1
    2 x 18 x .1
    1 x 16 x .15
    1 x 14 x .15
    1 x 11 x .2
    1 x 18 x .25

    to:
    2 x 24 x .1
    1 x 12 x .1
    1 x 24 x .1
    1 x 22 x .1
    1 x 20 x .1
    1 x 18 x .1
    1 x 16 x .1
    1 x 14 x .1
    1 x 12 x .1
    3 x 10 x .1

    to:
    4 x 24 x .1
    1 x 12 x .1
    1 x 24 x .1
    1 x 22 x .1
    1 x 20 x .1
    1 x 18 x .1
    1 x 16 x .1
    1 x 14 x .1
    1 x 12 x .1
    3 x 10 x .1

    Terminology: There are three stacks, base, mid, and rebound. Each can have a low and high speed part. In the above base valve stacks the first 24mm shims in the list are the low speed part of the stack, the 12mm shim is the crossover, and the rest are the high speed part.
    #55
  16. Gregidy

    Gregidy Been here awhile

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    my 05 has diff shims rrrr I ordered too few :)

    base

    6x 24 x1
    2x 20x1
    2x18x1
    1x16x2
    1x14x2
    1x11x3
    1x16x3

    mid

    4x24x1
    1x22x1
    1x20x1
    1x18x1

    rebound


    5x24x1
    1x20x1
    1x18x1
    2x14x1
    1x12x1
    1x10x3
    1x14x3

    not sure if it will help anyone but I'm in Canada might have set them up diff here
    #56
  17. Gregidy

    Gregidy Been here awhile

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    so i still am missing shimms 3 orders later hahahah not really funny!. well gotta get the bike back together so my stacks will be
    2x24x1-low speed?
    1x12x1
    1x24x1high speed?
    2x20x1 ''
    1x18x1 ''
    1x16x1 ''
    1x14x1 ''
    1x12x1 ''
    1x10x3 ''
    let me know whet you thing of the substitution of the 1x22x1 to a 1x20x1 should blow through a little faster hope not too fast
    have to try and see i could use a 1x24x1 but that might be a little to stiff high speed if I'm getting this correct ??

    researched allot but all just theory so far
    #57
  18. slackmeyer

    slackmeyer Don't mean sheeit. .

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    What's your midvalve float? I'd make sure to get that down to the .8-1.05 range while you're at it. To me, the basevalve sounds like not enough low speed damping (large diameter shims closest to the valve body), but I've only redone my 950 forks, not my 640.
    #58
  19. Gregidy

    Gregidy Been here awhile

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    the plan of attack is soft lsc and stiffen the mid valve so plush up top stiffer down slightly in the stroke. well from what ive researched Im just using zdogs mid valve or id be afraid to attempt this:evil
    #59
  20. slackmeyer

    slackmeyer Don't mean sheeit. .

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    zerodog's midvalve compression stack is 1.45mm, yours is 0.7, right? You're going to have more movement than you want at the beginning of the stroke I think. There were a few different midvalve taps, you should really try to measure the float on there with the shims you put on. . . you can use stacked feeler gauges if that's what you've got.
    #60