1. pringles mcingles

    pringles mcingles no me joda

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    I've been everywhere, man
    So doc says I have a bone spur on the top of my left big to at the main joint. There's also a small bone fragment in the joint. Surgeon's gonna go in there and shave it down and remove the fragment. There's been no overt trauma to the toe, just 50 years of life.

    Doc thinks it's from running. While I agree with him, it's not effecting my right foot. I'm thinking 20 years of shifting has significantly contributed to the damage.

    Anyone else have this or hear of it?
    #1
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  2. Florida Lime

    Florida Lime Long timer

    Joined:
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    As stated and not often enough in Robbinsville, NC
    I broke the big toe on my left foot so many times growing up, that it's fused at that joint already. :bluduh
    #2
  3. CrabbyJack

    CrabbyJack Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Hudson, WI
    I've been there, done that. My Podiatrist called it "Hallux Rigidus" which is just Latin for stiff big toe. Mine was caused by jamming the toe of my ski boot into an icy slope in a fall, plus years of kicking ice chunks from the fenders of my car. Because I was walking "around" the stiff toe, with one foot slightly splayed out, I developed knee problems, too. I also had trouble getting my right ski boot on, because the toe would not bend backwards.
    The surgeon took out the bone spurs, the chelation part of the surgery, but he also shortened the bone in my foot right behind the big toe to create a larger joint space. He did that by cutting it at a slant and then sliding the two pieces past each other and then fixing it with a single screw. My right big toe is now about 1/8" to 3/16" shorter than the left one and the 2nd toe on the right foot is having to take up the slack, but it's not built for it and it is now a little misshapen. I wear hiking shoes with a big toe box all of the time now, Kean or Merrill, but never tennis shoes. I wore a Velcro attached sandal on my foot for about 2 weeks and I wasn't able to drive for about the same time due to the pain meds and the manual trans on my car. The sandal is to basically to slow you down by having the Velcro wear out and you end up dragging the dumb thing around. I was able to return to work after about 2 weeks but I had to wear hiking shoes instead of my regular dress shoes.
    I never did get the full range of mobility back like the left foot has, but the left one is getting the same bone spurs now anyway, probably arthritis related. I also wasn't a runner, but walking improved, and my knee pain is gone. I can't keep up with my wife when we are walking because I don't get a good push off with my big toe. Instead I have a slower gait, but my foot tracks straight, instead of splaying out. She walks too fast, anyway.
    My older sister had the same thing done on one of her feet, and my younger sister has arthritis in her hands, so maybe the arthritis thing is hereditary. My surgery was done about 10 years ago and I can feel the bone spurs getting larger again. I can also predict the weather by how much my toes ache.

    CrabbyJack
    #3
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  4. foxtrapper

    foxtrapper Long timer

    Joined:
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    2,806
    My own experience, bone chip removal is a no big deal surgery with nothing but good results.

    Spur and growth removal, minor work resulted in minor temporary problems, more major work resulted in more major and longer lasting problems. As a non-doctor, I'd think the type of growth you are talking about would be minor and would heal quickly and completely.
    #4
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  5. Steve in Golden

    Steve in Golden Been here awhile

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    Golden, CO
    No wonder you are crabby, Jack.

    Pringles, I would tend to agree with your doc that the damage is from running rather than shifting your MC. Running is tough on your body. One of the reasons I don't do it. I prefer riding my bicycle or skiing or hiking or just going for a walk.
    #5
  6. Gillus

    Gillus High Desert Rat

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    Alamogordo, NM
    Been there done that on both feet big toes. Outcome was good for a while but 10 years later the toes are curving inward from the joint. One is headed on top of the second toe and the other side is twisting under so the nail cuts the second toe if I don't wear a bandaid.
    If the doc hints at fusing it, say ok.
    And yes arthritis is hereditary, a great Aunt gave up in her mid 60s, my Dad quit working when he was 54, spent his winters in Yuma. I had to quit full time work at 50 after the first toe surgery, bad knees and second back surgery to fuse it, concrete, the auto repair biz and a rural acreage was evil long term for me. Then moved south for warmer weather. I hated winter in CO as I felt bad for months.
    Take a look back at your family and relatives as see if any of them arthritis. It was right in front of me with my Dad and I didn't realize it till it was too late. Then adjust lifestyle to help prevent (from over use) future problems. Stay busy, fit and flexible.
    #6
  7. vintagespeed

    vintagespeed fNg

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    Rancho Cucamonger, CA
    interesting! post back results pls. i have a large bone fragment (spur?) in my wrist from my old skating days, sometimes it sticks out alot, most of the time it looks normal, so far (46yrs) it hasn't bothered me other than looking a little weird when it's wanting attention.
    #7
  8. pringles mcingles

    pringles mcingles no me joda

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
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    I've been everywhere, man
    Spur is on the bone; like a little horn. Fragment is a chip off the bone. My fragment is causing the pain, but the doc showed me that the spur has limited my toe's range of movement. I hadn't even noticed it until then.
    #8
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  9. deesee

    deesee Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Oddometer:
    72
    With the chilectomy, they remove the top 1/3 or so of the joint. I had one done, and don't have full range of motion, but my pain, swelling, and hot joint are very much better. The fragment is probably from bone spurs.
    #9
  10. Gillus

    Gillus High Desert Rat

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    When they did mine they cut the nerve that feeds that toe joint intentionally as part of the operation. No pain from the joint for years................
    The surgeon said they will drill tiny holes where they redo it as that will act like a micro fracture (or something) and act like cartilage to help the joint move.
    #10
  11. Podman

    Podman Rocketman

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
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    Dublin, Ohio
    Last topic I thought I would see on a motorcycle website-Ha. I have done 100's of cheilectomies and for the most part is a great procedure with a short recovery period.
    #11
  12. cbennett5199

    cbennett5199 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
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    Seeing this way late, but figured the info might be helpful. I've been dealing with hallux rigidus for a long time. Beat the hell out of my feet, and just about everything else for that matter over the years. It's gotten to the point now that up-shifts are causing considerable pain. After a normal day riding, it hurts like hell to even walk. After talking with numerous DPMs and MDs, the best procedure for me - at least at this point - is the cartiva implant. It was approved in the US in 2016, and has been used in Cananda and Europe already for a number of years. It's less invasive, quicker healing times, and if the procedure doesn't work, allows for a fall-back fusion operation since the joint is still intact. That's where I'm heading. Key piece of info for me, since the product/procedure is relatively new, is to identify the docs that have the most experienced docs who have the best outcomes doing cartiva implants. More info at cartiva.net (no, I have nothing to do with them).
    #12
  13. CharlieInStLouis

    CharlieInStLouis Been here awhile

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    You're kidding, right?
    I'm going thru this right now. Actually, I've been dealing with it for about the last 4 or 5 years. I had been changing footwear to accommodate the arthritis, ending up in an expensive hiking boot with a stiff sole. It worked great for over a year, but now the joints are too painful. I finally got with a doctor and was referred to a podiatrist. He checked me out and recommended the Cartiva implants. But my insurance won't cover them. So monday, he's going in and doing a cheilectomy and microfracture on both feet for the hallux rigidus. I almost balked when a pharmacy called me and wanted $140 for a 90 day supply of a supplement that the doctor ordered. Not a drug, but a supplement. I started freaking out a bit. I wasn't finding great things about the microfracture proceedure. But looking further, it looks like it could help. It won't hurt. I can still get the Cartiva implants later when the insurance approves them, and I could also get the joint fused or immobilized later if it needs it. Also, the cheilectomy is still the most relieving part of the surgery. I have to have it done. It's getting so bad, it even hurts to walk with the carbon fiber rigid insoles that they sold me.
    Be careful what you read on the internet. I first ran across some websearch results that were pointed at discrediting microfracture so an orthopedic group could promote their own special proceedure, and it tood more in depth searching to get past those advertisements. Doc says I should be back to work in a week. That will be really cool if it's true. I hope to be back on the bike soon.
    #13
  14. cbennett5199

    cbennett5199 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Oddometer:
    72
    CharlieInStLouis - Sorry to hear we're both dealing with this shit. It really sucks. I see people walking around, just as I used to, without even a second thought. It's such a normal thing to do as a bipedal human. Now every step hurts, and I've spent loads of money and hundreds of hours concocting fixes to cope with it. One thing I've recently done that will buy me a tad of time is to modify my sneakers and hiking shoes so that they have a forefoot rocker sole. One my sneakers I made more of a full-on rocker sole with an emphasis on the forefoot rocker. It took some work and research to avoid ruining my shoes and/or making them look like freak shoes. I bought high quality material from Frankford Leather Co in PA (they are a commercial wholesaler for shoe service companies, but the owner is fantastically nice). I attended a shoe service convention - never thought I'd ever be at one of those (I'm a tech worker). I bought both material for modifying the midsoles and sole material. Anyway, it absolutely helps with walking. It doesn't do much for shifting on the motorcycle, but I did add padding to the top of my left boot where the shifter makes contact. The key is to get nice, quality leather and use quality contact cement. I'm sure I have a cheilectomy coming my way, and no doubt a cartiva implant. Just trying to put off the inevitable as long as possible. Went down to Deals Gap and all over the place this past week, and I'm still walking.
    #14
  15. CharlieInStLouis

    CharlieInStLouis Been here awhile

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    You're kidding, right?
    Glad you are still able to ride. The one thing you said really stands out to me. "Every step hurts." You got that right, brother. I'm a mechanic (in pharmaceuticals) and I thought about getting some carbon fiber sheets and cutting out some paddles (insoles). Lo and behold, the podiatrist was happy to provide them to me for $470. They made a really big difference. But I must be right at that point, I can really tell the difference in how much worse my feet have gotten in just the past week. I can't wait until Monday and the surgery. I've put this off probably longer than I should have. Weather should be good tomorrow. I might ride into work, and maybe take a little camping trip over the weekend. Sons of Arthritis is a very fitting moniker. I'll post up how the surgery goes and how long it takes to go back to work. Others might look at this and be able to make a better decision about their foot issues.
    #15
  16. CharlieInStLouis

    CharlieInStLouis Been here awhile

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    You're kidding, right?
    Just an update.
    I was supposed to have surgery on August 6. My wife went with me. She stumbled and fell outside the outpatient surgery center and dislocated her elbow. It was horrible! I took her to the emergency room and it took all day to get her fixed. The put her out and popped the elbow back into place. Now she has a lot of rehab to do. Obviously my surgery was postponed.
    We took an Uber to the surgery center and made it there without anything bad happening. I had the surgery around 3pm. Knocked out and woke up as quick as you would snap your fingers. After getting my head back together, the put boots on me and I walked to the restroom. They wheeled my out side and I got into another Uber with my wife and went home. I walked up the driveway with my crutches, but didn't really need them. I was up and walking around quite a bit when I got home. I took the boots off and fell asleep. I woke up around midnight, and my feet were waking up a bit from the local. Not bad though. I walked to the bathroom with out the boots on, and decided to put the boots back on. It's now around 9 am and I still haven't taking anything for pain. It's just kind of snug around my ankles from the dressing. Maybe the local anesthetic hasn't worn off yet. Nope, big toes are still numb. So I'll sit and wait and see how it goes. So far, so good. Wait and see what it's like when the pain comes.
    #16
  17. CharlieInStLouis

    CharlieInStLouis Been here awhile

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    You're kidding, right?
    Day 2,
    I guess the local did wear off yesterday. My feet feel the same, but both big toes still have no feeling. I guess that's from the trauma of the surgery. They are a deep, deep purple/black from the knuckle on back. I can walk around ok, slowly, small steps, but ok. I can drive. I haven't taken any narco's, just an ibubrofen one time yesterday afternoon. I went to the grocery store and bought a few things my daughter forgot to get. I made a run to my favorite burger joint. I did ok. The feet are sore, but nothing that I really need relief from.
    After the surgery, the doc told my wife that there was no cartlage left in either major toe joint, so I assume I'm bone on bone here, with the spurs removed. I guess we'll see if the microfracture can "grow" any cartlage. I'm not optimistic on that front. I'll just have to wait and see how it goes. I go to see the doc next Tuesday.
    #17
  18. CharlieInStLouis

    CharlieInStLouis Been here awhile

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    Feb 16, 2014
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    You're kidding, right?
    Back to work after 3 weeks. I didn't need any pain meds other than ibuprofen once in a blue moon.
    Doc said hardly any cartilage left in the joints. Stitches finally out. Ok, these things fooking hurt! I guess effects of surgery still in play. Still feel joint pain if I try to flex off the joint when I walk. I'll give more time and see what happens. I go back to the doc in 3 weeks.
    #18