Clutch lever problems,need help.

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by redster, May 10, 2004.

  1. redster

    redster GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Oddometer:
    103
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I took out my 950 today and as I was gonna get into gear I noticed that when I depressed the clutch lever the gear was catching.So I aborted the first gear shif t and try to figure out why it's engaging.I adjusted the travel adjust screw(red scre things)and it doesn't catch the gears as I shift but it seems like if it's not depressed all the way to the grip it would catch the gears as you shift.I don't wanna ruin the gears on a new bike.Is it possible that there's air in the hydrolic lines of the clutch?Any suggestions on the fix?Thanks for any reply for this matter.

    Redster
    #1
  2. Jean-Luc

    Jean-Luc Throttle committed

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    Redster, it's not really a clutch "lever" or "air in the hydraulic fluid" issue. More a "clutch" or maybe a "oil pressure" inside the clutch issue. Do a search in this forum and you will find a lot of information but no definitive answer :cry.

    Here is an extract from NoiseData posts:

    OK so we bled the clutch. There was a small amount of oil missing and the oil that was still there was very very dirty (black). So at first we were very happy as we thought that changing the oil will solve the problem. Too bad, it didn't (as some of you have already experienced with your bikes). So now they are changing the plates tomorrow. Let's see what happens...

    Maybe regarding that: in the shop there is brand new GO!!!! 2004 bike that has a very similar problem -- the effect is the same (doesn't shift back to neutral, it creeps forward), yet the cause is supposedly the leaking sealing somewhere on the oil pump which drives the oil from the clutch back UP to the oil canister... so all the oil was remaining in the clutch, which was driving the plates forward... they get the sealing in Wednesday and hopefully this will solve the problem on this particular GO!!! ...

    Yet we have checked the oil level in mine (in the canister) and it's normal. We'll see when we open the clutch cover tomorrow...
    ________________________________________
    Spent 5 and half hours today at the dealers... first surprise - when we took out the plates they were OK, yet ONE plate was 2,3mm instead of 2mm wide. Even though they are the same width in the service manual... ?!?!?!?!? Anyway, we changed them. Result: the same problem.

    We moved on and took apart the system: slave cylinder and the rod that goes through the bike to the other side to the gasket... we noticed that there is some wear on the pushrod and that it is quite different from the 2004 one. We have tried couple of things regarding the mechanics and nothing improved the situation. It is almost certain that this problem has nothing to do with the hydraulics of the clutch system!

    So, at the moment we are stuck with two more or less possible (logical) reasons for the problem:

    • there is a problem with the proportion of oil in the oil tank vs. oil in the lower part --- the pressure pump that brings the oil from the oil tank might have a problem with the sealing ring which would effectively mean that there is too much oil in the oil sump, making too much pressure and thus driving the system forward and turning the wheel...

    • the reasons why this might be the real problem are:
    o if you rev the engine above 3000 rpm the wheel stops turning and you can easily shift into neutral (which would mean that pump sucks the oil back up in the tank faster and clears the oil sump)
    o we have exactly the same problem on a NEW bike (GO!!!!)... the mechanic at the dealer's found a piece of a sealant ring (o-ring) in the oil and it is from the pump... that would mean that with this new one there is a problem as the o-ring was already broken in the factory and with mine the ring has decayed probably to this stage when the problem is still little (as it still "holds" mostly, only in neutral under idle the suction pump spits the oil back in the oil sump)... that would also mean that as my o-ring gets worse the problem would get worse, resulting in the same issue Barbasma’s bike has: the oil level drops significantly (till the warning light flashes) and when he revs up the oil level in both parts (oil sump and oil tank) gets proper...

    • also, there could be the problem with the needle bearing -- if there is some dust or chip of iron stuck in there the symptoms could be the ones we have...

    CHECK THIS OUT: the latest SERVICE info from KTM has something to do with pushrod wear. WHICH MEANS THAT KTM EXACTLY KNOWS THAT THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS YET OFFICIALLY IT DOESN'T EXIST. IT MEANS THEY ARE WORKING ON IT TO REPAIR IT BUT THEY ARE AFREAID TO TELL... We have called two times to the factory and they denied it... and then at the third call we have managed to arrange that official KTM mechanic from the factory from Austria comes tomorrow to see our two bikes...
    ________________________________________

    And here is information from Barbasma in Italy who knows Meoni and his mechanic. He burned his clutch while riding in Tunisia.

    Recommendations:
    • Change the diameter of the oil intake (giggler?)... the official recall on 2003 model change it from 0,40 to 0,50... Feliciani said to put 1,00 mm..

    • Make holes inside the clutch to make come more oil on the clutch.
    #2
  3. Renegade6

    Renegade6 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Oddometer:
    854
    Location:
    New Boston, TX
    #3
  4. gato88

    gato88 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Oddometer:
    66
    Location:
    sf,ca
    went mineral,10/30 breakin, to something like5/40 syn motorex to
    2500 miles,now to 15/50 4t motorex to solve shitty clutch issues,thinking
    it will resolve thru breakin and oil viscios for oil pressure 1400 rpm to make
    it tick, slave back off, continuely,torque and blue loctite......0000000000
    hydraulics and heat transfer within accuation to clutch basket,I don't see as problem,it seems like stiction on friction to steel plates for whatever reason
    oiling whatever....... for me I thought it was the pain I inflicted,but no chatter or other ill reactions,when it feels bad,the clutch is releaseing
    the absolute top of engagement and dragsssssssssssssssss
    1400 idle speed solves alot of oiling gilches,but temp and trans engagement
    and clutch actuation is another bag,mr ktm............dig?
    #4
  5. katoom_950

    katoom_950 Life, 2 short 4 traffic

    Joined:
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    343
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    Bali, Indonesia
    It is difficult to tell if these issues are related to the oil return valve or not but you should read through the three threads at 950Riders.com;

    The KTM Oracle;
    Early 2003 Clutch Info; and
    More on Oil Return Valve;

    There was an earlier service advice superceded by the one posted at 'Early 2003 Clutch Info'. I have not posted this there as I felt it may cause some confusion but it does mention lots of issues that may be related to this problem. I will post this up later today on the 'Early 2003 Clutch Info' for your information.
    #5
  6. katoom_950

    katoom_950 Life, 2 short 4 traffic

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    This is the section I was thinking of from "More on Oil Return Valve"


    This was from 18.09.2003.

    Go here for the pictures.
    #6
  7. redster

    redster GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Oddometer:
    103
    Location:
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    Well,I really like the 950 and it would fit my riding needs.It is kinda disappointing to have a problem on a brand new bike and it's not cheap either.Would this problem be covered under warranty?I would like this bike to be as worry free as possible and not a lot of maintenace.If this is going to be too sensitive of a bike(to much small problems)then it would take the fun of riding the motor cycle.So,what's the final fix for this problem?


    Redster
    #7
  8. Jean-Luc

    Jean-Luc Throttle committed

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    I guess we would have told you if it was known :wink:.

    I would be the first to be interested in the answer. Right now my dealer is trying to find a fix, and yes, it is covered under warranty. I will keep eveyone posted if he finds a reliable solution.
    #8
  9. katoom_950

    katoom_950 Life, 2 short 4 traffic

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    These are problems arising early in the bikes life, it is at the end of the second years production now, not new. The upshot is that these service bullitins will not affect your bike when and if you get one and yes the work is done under warranty. Check UKGS'ers or this site for GS1200 problems, it goes with the territory.

    Read it all here to arm yourself for a visit to the dealer
    #9
  10. Renegade6

    Renegade6 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Oddometer:
    854
    Location:
    New Boston, TX
    Katoom-

    Thanks for posting those bulletins, my dealer didnt' know anything about them and from looking at the easy to identify things (carb vents, fuel line reinforcements, etc.) it looks like none of them were done on mine.
    #10
  11. katoom_950

    katoom_950 Life, 2 short 4 traffic

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    No worries. Thats the lot for now but I will post any others that get out on the 950riders forum so check there every once in a while. The owners, repair and parts manuals should be up in the near future so we will all have a solid source of info pretty soon.

    Glad to help 'cos I can understand the situation with dealers having trouble getting proper training and guidance from KTM, I think it has gotten a little out of control in the States and it seems the dealers need to get their own act together as the information is out there for them, they just need to look harder and talk to the company more. Hopefully things will catch up and get organised over the next year or so.

    What I do advise all 950 owners to do though is get in touch with any dealer and ask them to conduct a "Vehicle History Search" on their VIN number. The result will indicate what if any updates and inspections that may be outstanding. This is done through the dealers' ktmservicenet computer system.

    Tell your dealer he will find these bullitins on the 950 Adventure Repair Manual. He should explore the CD in "My Computer" looking in the English language folder and find a folder named TI_ here he will find all of the bullitins issued before the CD was made. The remainder if any will be found on the KTM infosystem.
    #11