Clutchin guts

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Caliboss, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Caliboss

    Caliboss Lord of the Marsh.

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    05 r1200gs ABS, blue

    Well, my clutch has gone. Pretty certain I got mineral oil in there and slicked up the disc. Need to get replacement parts. I'm inclined to go with teh kit from BBY.
    I assume the kit from BBY is legit, but they aren't offering the Siebenrock discs right now. Instead they're offering some discs "from England." Anyone know anything g about those discs?

    Secondly, BBY stipulates that since my bike was "...built before 4/06 you will need to upgrade to...the updated pushrod and clutch housing cover..."
    I had my clutch rebuilt about 5 years ago, how can I tell if they updated these parts then?

    Thanks
    #1
  2. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    BBY kits are top notch! Call BBY and ask for a description. Mike is good and can help you figure it out.
    #2
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  3. Caliboss

    Caliboss Lord of the Marsh.

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    Good dude indeed. We went back and forth a little by email today. Last question I posed to him, may as well ask here, too, and it's about the updates to the clutch housing and push rod. Had my clutch redone in 2014 and these are part numbers installed--
    pushrod installed was 21217702596
    and the housing was 21217697740.
    According to the fiche that's the number for the correct pushrod, post 04/06. I'm just assuming that the clutch housing number is the one that matches the updated pushrod...?? But I couldn't really make heads or tails of it from the fiche.
    #3
  4. sykospain

    sykospain Been here awhile

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    IIRC the year-05 1200 has the usual hydraulically-operated single-plate dry clutch that plagues most BMW riders by being unreliable and prone to failure due to bad design. A design which was abandoned by the profiteering combine in 2013 when they completely revised the boxer's motor and incorporated a bought-in Chinese wet clutch in order quietly to dodge all the hundreds of complaints from dealers throughout past decades, without going to the expense of a recall to replace inadequate parts.

    With the greatest respect, may I suggest that you need to hold off from throwing money at the problem and start to investigate and so think ¿ why has the clutch on your bike gone south ?

    I'll bet it's the failed Clutch Slave Cylinder that operates the pushrod. The little bearing in there rotates at engine speed all the time you're riding the bike. And it eventually dies, seizes up and DOT4 hydraulic fluid as used in brake circuits fills up the cavity that the Slave Cylinder sits in, then migrates along the clutch actuation push rod to splatter your friction plate with a mixture of gearbox oil and DOT4. Goodbye clutch.

    The solution therefore, apart from splitting the bike in half with its tail up in the air, is to replace the Slave Cylinder, the hydraulic clutch fluid long line to the handlebar and the small, now-compromised oil-seal sitting deep in the gearbox cavity in 'front' of the clave cylinder. And buy the new Italian-made component, not the Magura abomination that BMW still supplies, bought-in from Slovakia at around ten snoojits apiece to them, and sold to you at vast expense.
    #4
  5. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    You should stick to what you almost know.

    The R1200 system, though somewhat similar to the 1150 that you have a little knowledge of, is not the same. It uses mineral oil, and is generally pretty reliable. Your rambling about Chinese (repeatedly) parts, and the rest is just BS surrounded by more BS.
    #5
  6. Callisto224

    Callisto224 Long timer

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    Each paragraph has so many questions I could ask. Suffice it to say, I don't agree with most of what he says (and I'm no expert!).

    DOT4 hydraulic fluid? :fpalm
    #6
  7. lewisjr1

    lewisjr1 Long timer Supporter

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    Pre-packaged clutch kits are available in regular flavor for $560, plus shipping... https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla97737ck.html

    And also in oil-resistant variety, for about $50 more... https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla97737ckop.html

    One of these kits will very likely be what I choose when my own '05 Hexhead eventually needs a new clutch.

    And I'll bet a beer that the part # listed in post # 3 for the clutch housing cover replaced in '14 matches that of the updated part which BBY refers to in their clutch kit listings.

    My goodness the slave cylinders sure are pricey! https://www.beemerboneyard.com/21527724542.html

    I note for posterity - and because I own a very early Hexhead - that quality parts (alone) for full clutch replacement on these early bikes exceeds $800. I'll guess shop time is probably 5-8 hours, depending on experience, and the typical DIY type will require significantly longer.
    #7
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  8. Caliboss

    Caliboss Lord of the Marsh.

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    Well those horses are out, so to speak. Already bought and installed the new slave from BBY, so I'm pretty sure it's not that. And I think I'm to blame for the clutch getting wet anyway. That being said, what are the details on the Italian part you mentioned?
    #8
  9. Caliboss

    Caliboss Lord of the Marsh.

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    I'm gonna go for the orthodox vs the oil resistant and have a local indie mechanic install it. Sheesh
    #9
  10. OzRider64

    OzRider64 Friggen slow Adventurer.

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    Unreliable clutch, what a load of waffle.
    I’ve done over 400.000 Kilometres on dry clutch BM’s without an issue.
    I say it’s user error, perhaps you need to step away from your keyboard for a while and do some actual riding.
    DOT 4 in your clutch system, yep that’s a doozy.
    #10
  11. sykospain

    sykospain Been here awhile

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    Hi Jim von B. Sorry you vociferously disagree with my view of the dry clutch and of BMW's profiteering pricing policy. It takes all sorts....and your impolite remarks have at least ensured that this potential customer won't be investing in any of your instructional videos.....

    Maybe to support your opinion that the clutch is less troublesome, I was surprised and delighted to see the state of the 14-year-old gearbox input shaft spline and the clutch friction plate hub revealed when I split my 25K miles bike.

    Spline duly cleaned, copper-wire-brushed and polished. Only a slight shadow visible showing where the consistently wrongly-specified too-short hub covers the splines :-

    [​IMG]

    Friction Plate hub duly cleaned, polished and Staburag'ed :-
    [​IMG]

    In fact this interface was indeed slightly moist with a smear of heavy-duty motor grease hen I separated it. So despite all the ringer-bolts coming out dry as a witch's whatsit, plus the bottom-right-hand dowel being rusted into the gearbox casting there, needing several hefty blows with a copper-head mallet on a protective wooden pad to drive it apart, maybe the job had been done by a P.O. earlier in the bike's life. Factory-applied Staburags grease is white.
    #11
  12. OzRider64

    OzRider64 Friggen slow Adventurer.

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    :fpalm
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  13. Steptoe

    Steptoe steptoe

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    :D ...
    #13
  14. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    I'm crushed, crushed I tell you! :rolleyes

    Post truth and facts, I have no issues. Post nonsense and expect to be called on it. :deal
    #14
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  15. socalnative

    socalnative Been here awhile

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    This pretty much sums it up another online opinion: "state of the 14-year-old gearbox input shaft spline and the clutch friction plate hub revealed when I split my 25K miles bike".
    Another office chair expert about something they have little experience about.

    Hopefully anyone with a R1200gs clutch issue doesn't come across your post and waste time researching your claims.

    I'm not married to any one brand. I have four completely different brands of motorcycles manufactured in different countries. I'm not bragging just pointing out that I don't just buy German, Japanese, Italian, Chinese, or whatever country of origin or make or model of anything.

    BMW DOES charge a lot of parts.

    Don't buy them if you don't like them or they cost too much.

    And why would someone buy or even waste time fixing something that obviously is a bad design and prone to failure.
    #15
  16. Bill-66

    Bill-66 I don't even know... Supporter

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    So..you know nothing of the system..
    #16
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