Copper Canyon March 2019 Route and Other Questions

Discussion in 'Americas' started by LtCrashDan, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. LtCrashDan

    LtCrashDan Been here awhile

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    Good idea. I’ve read this before and read people have issues going into Baja, but if we do this and carry our “original” documents we should be good. Easy to send the original digitally as that is the way we receive them now.
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  2. Assfault

    Assfault Exposed Member Supporter

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    One still has to stop and get the Tourist Visa, I find it easy to just get them all at the same time.
    I have gone over the border many times, and if I had my paperwork squared away, I was good to go.
    Passport
    Drivers Licence
    Original registration
    Insurance
    All Docs up to date and not expired
    Credit Card to pay
    Cash for the copies

    Never needed the title
    they never asked for it.
    #22
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  3. stormdog

    stormdog Long timer

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    You are absolutely correct Assfault, but But the key phrase is “ my paper work squared away” these guys aren’t sure about the squared away part.
    I have crossed the border many time, in fact I have crossed twice in the last couple of months with two different bikes at the same place with the same guy and had to supply different docs each time.
    I had a fellow with me on the first trip who had never ridden in Mexico before( and yes we got all of our paper work at the border)I don’t think those of us that have been crossing for years can appreciate the stress that crossing for the first time involves
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  4. LtCrashDan

    LtCrashDan Been here awhile

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    Thanks Storm and Assfault. I have read up on insurance, needing title (waiting for mine as I just paid off my WRR for this trip), and originals with copies. The thing is, last year, Pennsylvania changed their registration process, and now you do it online and they email you your registration. There is no "original", this is the concern. We can pay the state of course a fee to get a copy sent to us. It is $6 and a form, which is probably worth it for peace of mind.

    Also, I updated Post 2 with some converted routes using GPS visualizer and google maps. I have some mixed feedback about going creel to Urique or taking an alternate. Should we do Batopilas to Urique and take that eastern more route, and then hit Bahuichivo to El Fuerte? Does this route look like a good starting point? Is El Fuerte and Alamos worth the big loop down, or are there better places to visit? Are the google routes complete crap? I have only compared a couple to Google satellite.
    The current days are planned short, very short. We have done 300 mile days, and we have done 200 mile days of rough stuff. I could understand 5 hours to go 60 miles in mud, but I don't think we will be happy sitting around with 5 hours of daylight if we get to our destination at 1pm. Maybe this is where the exploring comes in assuming we are good on fuel.

    Attached Files:

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  5. Sjoerd Bakker

    Sjoerd Bakker Long timer

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    Holckster, your pointer on the situation of the border formalities at SONOYTA in 2012 is well intended but it is incorrect in 2018

    Yes you MUST stop and get the FMM in the Migracion& Aduana building immediately after you cross the border from Lukeville
    You do NOT need to stop in Sonoyta for a TVIP and there is NO service at the shed "20 miles away from the border " .That shed has been closed for five or more years .
    The Migracion officer at Sonoyta last year directed me to continue down the highway Mex 2 and to visit the BIG , new ,modern ,efficient Customs Checkpoint at PITIQUITO at the km 83 marker. It is on the south side of the new non-city routing of Mex 2 about 7km east of Caborca. That Pitiquito terminal is open for service 24/7 , year round . DSC08006.JPG

    ( The Sonoyta Migracion officer I dealt with in Oct 2017 wasvery friendly and helpful and we chatted for a while . He also explained that in Sonoyta among the messy street exiting from the border there was indeed a small Banjercito branch where one could get the TVIP but he said to ignore it because it was a pain to locate and open only limited hours . He also said that there were plans afoot to actually upgrade the Sonoyta Banjercito and move it into the actual border building together with the Migracion )

    RE required documents ; if your home jurisdiction sends out your documents for an electronic medium it stands to reason that if you print it at the "normal size " of what a hand delivered item would be then it can be considered to be an " original" . Why would you have it if it was a piece of trash ?
    Politely tell the Banjercito worker that it IS official and that it is the ONLY legal proof from your state that he can expect to see., and there is no alternative . Do not waiver . He can confer with his superiors to learn about PA documentation practice but eventually he/she will accept it .
    If the Banjercito worker, or anybody else asks for your """ Titulo "" do not hastily assume they want to see that thing you call "Title" . It could be plainly a request to see a document that is proof of ownership . Don't blabber about Titulo , instead throw out stuff like documento oficial de propriedad ,and registracion , and no existe otro
    From Ontario I only get a smallish single fold-up document which is the "Ownership and Registration " .Sometimes I get asked for "Titulo" and I show
    that and explain what it is and that there is nada mas . A new recruit might phone the DF or regional office but they ALWAYS accept it .

    This brings up the remarks by Stormdog who suggests scanning the documents and emailing them to Banjercito to get the TVIP online . Now , isn't that ODD to say the least , that they would accept an electronic image as a supposedly "ORIGINAL " document ? What if you scan your own printed version of said document - how could they tell any difference ?


    And ,yes ,I do get it that first time- ever crossing of the border might bring a tingle of excitement and anticipation of the unfamiliar ... but stress ?
    What sort of crazy ideas about Mexico have they been absorbing from the sensationalized slanted news sources ? Didn't you have a discussion with them about it ? And are they on some sort of forced time schedule to high tail it away from the "dangerous border " as far and as rapidly as possible ?
    I think the FIRST time is an ideal opportunity to get introduced to the required processes , to learn how simple and straightforward the procedure is . They have to learn it sometime , might as well be on trip ONE. It will make more of an impression then ,and the experienced guide can get everybody familiar with the proper routine . .And are they going to be scared equally silly about crossing back into the US with the risk of possible strip search and body cavity inspections ? :imaposer

    And ,no I do not consider myself a "purist " for saying so , but getting the TVIP on- line has a potential for creating some annoying problems . What if the rider gets the TVIP delivered by the courier and decides to chicken out of going to Mexico , or has an honest medical excuse ?
    He will still need to cancel the TVIP and get his Security Deposit refund . I do believe you still need to go to the border with the bike to do those cancellations . That could be fun if you live half way ,or all the way across the country from the border .
    Nobody has yet explained how or IF that trip-aborting cancellation could be done on-line.
    It is also possible to get the FMM on-line and that is an equally pointless process because one still must stop at the border to get it activated with a date and Entrada stamp on the card and in the passport - the very procedures one might have been trying to avoid by going on-line .
    #25
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  6. jimmex

    jimmex Guero con moto Supporter

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    Take tie downs.:strum
    #26
  7. LtCrashDan

    LtCrashDan Been here awhile

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    Tie downs are only if we are going to Baja for the ferry right? We have decided to spend the whole time in the copper canyon area as our timeline would be too tight if we did copper canyon and baja.
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  8. Yinzer Moto

    Yinzer Moto Long timer Supporter

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    You might be right on that thought but I was thinking he was referring to having to tie the bikes down in the back of the truck when one dies. I carry some rope.
    #28
  9. jimmex

    jimmex Guero con moto Supporter

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    Having them allows you to drink beer in the cab of the pickup instead of riding in back holding your bike (which could actually save your life). Seriously, you never know down there when you're going to need help.... crossing rivers por ejemplo or mechanical or .....
    #29
  10. Sjoerd Bakker

    Sjoerd Bakker Long timer

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    Tie downs are for life :lol3 They have multiple uses , could be the best "tool "you brought along .

    Tie downs 101:
    You can use them to hold down a bike in a truck or on a ferry, as a tow line, as an emergency support if your luggage case or fairing breaks off the bike(metal fatigue , crash damage ) as a clothes line, to hang a hammock between posts etc .

    I always carry FOUR , but two is the minimum you could get away with.
    I emphatically recommend the style which uses the cam-buckle cinching method .The style using a ratcheting tensioner device is a second choice - the ratchet stuff is very bulky and heavy and prone to malfunction . The winding strap can load up the spool and bind before you are actually tight enough on the load .
    Third choice is the buckle that lets the belt slide through to set tension and then has a hinged jaw with aggressive teeth to bite and hold - these chew up the belt rapidly.
    Also I recommend you do some modification if the only style you can find has a steel HOOK at each end (most of them do )

    Start with a cam-buckle strap and cut off both hooks. That will reduce the weight and bulk by about half and eliminate a lot of tangling problems .
    (Hooks are always a problem because they tend to pop off their anchoring point if not tensioned enough and you smack over a hard bump
    in the road .Hooks risk chafing a hole in soft luggage and dry-bags . If the hook comes free it will eventually get tangled
    in the spokes or the chain. Hooks mar the paint on the bike )
    The sliding strap on most units will have a soft loop on the end you pull to set tension . Heat seal the end you sliced off and pull the
    belt out of the cam-buckle
    The new belts come with more length than what you really need to hold a load on a bike . Cut off a piece from the plain end , about 40cm long ,
    heat seal the newly cut edges .
    Take that short piece and thread it around the anchor bar of the cam-buckle and sew an overlapping joint , using strong nylon thread , to give a big loop permanently attached to that buckle .
    If you have no access to a sewing machine you can simply tie the ends of this loop with a good knot. This may not look as professional
    but it will work just as well. You can tie the short strap around the frame tube before passing around the anchor bar , but that makes eventual removal from the bike more difficult.
    The point is to make a loop long enough to pass around a frame tube or a luggage rack member and still have
    enough loop room for the buckle to pass though.
    Take the long belt with the soft loop and pass that soft loop around whatever frame member you choose , and then pass the free , plain end
    through the loop and then re-thread the cut end through the cam mechanism so that the plain end is now the puller to set tension .

    Practice good tie down belt ettiquette : avoid tensioning belt over sharp metal edges
    NEVER put knots in the belt which has to slide through the cam. Store them in a dedicated pouch in your luggage when not in use .

    You can now quickly slide your load items under these straps on the bike and snug it down as much as you can . wind any excess length and stow under the belt or under a bungee cord. If the excess length is silly long you could shorten it . While touring you need never remove the belts from the bike ,even if you park the luggage bags . You can snug them down and stow the loose ends under the belt .
    You can use the belt to quickly tie the bike down to anchor points in a ferry or truck box using only the soft loop ends
    #30
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  11. stormdog

    stormdog Long timer

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    I know I am 4 drinks into a 5 drink night, but man you are way over thinking this tie down thing.
    I’ve carried a piece of parachute cord for 100,000 miles and never needed it.
    #31
  12. ez-e-adventure

    ez-e-adventure Been here awhile Supporter

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    I'm in - watching for your ride. I am considering a ride that direction possibly around the same time. My mom was born up in the Sierra Madres - near Chuhuichupa. I'm futzing around with a map, but have yet to get some guidance from some of my relatives who still live in the area. --evmurdock
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  13. cwc

    cwc . Supporter

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    If you are traveling with others from your state make sure that all the paperwork "LOOKS" the same. If you are printing your own rego I'd try to print all of them on the same printer. I've seen this to be a problem at Ojinaga and the Anzalduas bridge by Reynosa.
    $6 to get a state printed form is pretty cheap in the context of your total trip costs.
    #33
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  14. cwc

    cwc . Supporter

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    Maybe. At Ojinaga in October the official (a young kid) required both a title and registration from my friend from Illinois. He was not negotiable and claimed there was no one else above him. It was Sunday late afternoon so maybe that was true?? We had rooms in Ojinaga for the night so we called the Secretary of State in IL in the morning and they emailed a .pdf of the rego which we printed at the hotel.

    Another problem, if you are from Minnesota, is that the what we call the registration is not an ownership document, it just indicates that you paid the annual fee for plates. The current year slip only shows the first part of the VIN. Fortunately I caught that before the trip and was able to get the local license bureau to print me one with the full VIN for each bike.
    #34
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  15. cwc

    cwc . Supporter

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    Carichi.jpg
    If you are using a GPS you can download "Open Street Maps" for Mexico which has this road.
    http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/
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  16. LtCrashDan

    LtCrashDan Been here awhile

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    Ah yes good call. I’ll take a look at this soon. I forgot about open street maps. The garmin na maps so far look ok but I’m sure are lacking.
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  17. LtCrashDan

    LtCrashDan Been here awhile

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    Wow, that is quite the route. The copper canyon part looks pretty close to what I have planned. Even the part up to guachoci, another inmate I was talking to just road that part between there and batopilas. Good luck with the planning, lots of knowledge here. Wish I could do such a long trip, but am really excited for my two week trip even.
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  18. LtCrashDan

    LtCrashDan Been here awhile

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    I've updated Post 2 as we decided to switch Directions with Most of the route staying the same. I'm in need of Hotel recommendations for El Fuerte, Creel, Alamos, Bahuchivo and Chinepas. I'm also trying to decide if we should consider skipping an evening in Alamos. It just seems like such a short ride, I fear we may not be super excited about sitting around that day. I feel we would be much happier about staying multiple nights in Urique or Bahuchivo. I'm also in need of the dirt route i hear about from Bahuchivo to Creel. Is there also information about an overlook above Urique? There appears to be an awesome winding road up above Urique that might be worth exploring staying an extra night there.
    #38
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  19. stormdog

    stormdog Long timer

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    Comments in no particular order
    In El Fuerte there is a nice motel with secure parking just below the driveway to the fort.
    If you stay in Alamos, I did an interesting walking tour with a guide from the museum once. Well worth it.
    On the main road to Urique you can’t miss the over look. Parking on the left.
    #39
  20. LtCrashDan

    LtCrashDan Been here awhile

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    Thanks storm dog, when you say the main road, do you mean from creel? That's what I'm thinking and I dont know we will be heading that way unless we take a jaunt up the road from unique. I'm also trying g to figure out the high road vs low road everyone talks about. I'm hoping we are taking the more difficult low road as we prefer the more technical terrain.
    #40